The Constant WTF

FATAL: Review Session #5

2009-10-29T00:00:00.000-07:00

Since it's been a while, remember: Darren MacLennan is orange juice, Jason Sartin is aquamarine, Byron Hall is FATAL red, Burnout is weed green, I'm white, and all of the above are subject to change without reason or rhyme because Blogger sucks at telling me these things.

Also, the original review is here. The MSTing of said review is here.

Sartin: Those of you who are upset that Hall took a giant piss on anatomical science can take heart in knowing that he also soaked everything that's ever been written about art, medieval history, and RPG design while he was at it.

Well, actually, he seems to have missed Rossiaud's Medieval Prostitution, but we'll run with it.

Meanwhile, Testosticles forbid that just fucking describing an injury isn't any better than FATAL's lame ass "Crucial Damage" charts. I mean, really:

02% Belly Button

Opponent’s belly is hacked, though no critical organs behind it.

This is nitpicking, but seriously - how do you forget a mothercracking verb, even in a subordinate clause?

The small intestine may (70%) spill forth. If it does, the sight of this causes the opponent to need to pass a Health check at TH 50 or be stunned for 2d4 rounds.

Actually, fair enough - I don't think D&D got around to this sort of thing until 3rd Edition, and even then only as a variant rule. Glad to see someone's picking up that slack.

Although Jason meant crucial, not critical, he failed to account for the damage. Because of damage, which is handled prior to the chart he referenced, all Crucial Damage is life-threatening. In fact, if he paid attention, nearly all weapon-based attacks are life-threatening in FATAL. However, a belly button is listed as less crucial regarding hacking a torso than, say, hacking a lumbar vertebrae. Again, Jason failed to represent FATAL.

As someone who has read through the damage section and took the time (and soul) out to get through the turgidity, Sartin did mess up in not accounting for the damage. I'm still sure he meant "critical" (note the quotation marks) because that's the term anyone who isn't Byron Hall would use, but the point stands.

"Further, role-playing situations that accurately represent mythology are likely at some point to include rape, molestation, encounters in brothels or possibly situations that deviate more from social norms."

Enjoy this first mention of "Well, because it's historical, we're not in trouble." As much in life, the authors of FATAL use history and mythology as they use any other source: Go through it for the dirty parts, ignore everything else, then claim that you're entirely accurate. (And while there are myths that deal with rape - most of them Greek - molestation, brothel visits, or giving birth to a clone through your cock didn't appear in any of them. Nice try, though.)

My interest is piqued here. ~~Byron~~ FATAL mentions "rape, molestation, brothel visits, or possibly situations that deviate more from social norms." Rape and molestation do figure in a lot of myths, brothel visits don't, and cock clones definitely don't (and if they do, those myths should never be made public) but there's one very common element in myths that FATAL doesn't take into account.

Maybe even Byron and his bunch have standards, but notice incest wasn't included, despite the fact that a metric fuckton of Greco-Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian and what-have-you deities were boinking their siblings and cousins.

Although Darren erroneously presumed to know anything about my life, he failed to support any argument about skipping solid content and only including dirty parts. By the way, Darren should learn that brothels existed long before, and after, Ancient Greece.

I promised myself I would stop nitpicking on his English - well, until I can't hold it in any longer - but I like how suddenly mythology and history are drawn together. MacLennan's talking about a paragraph with the word "mythology" in it, and somehow by the time Byron reads it, it's turned into Ancient Greek history. Granted, MacLennan used the word "historical" in his part of this, so he's half to blame.

Yes, brothels have always been the norm. It's not called "the world's oldest profession" for nothing.

In fact, brothels were the accepted norm throughout the Middle Ages. As a reference, I cited Medieval Prostitution. There is nothing dirty about notes on Roads, Mail, and Around Town, which are sections in Chapter 6: Sociality. Of course, I can cite numerous other examples, but Darren does not appear to support his claims, or if he does, it is with minimum effort. Finally, random magical effects have already been discussed. If a historical source exists, please let me know.

Well, there are a couple dirty notes in Around Town, if my mental table of contents is still correct. Don't quote me on that though - peccavi prius.

Burnout: I have to jump in here just to state how hypocritical Darren is. He accuses FATAL of only taking the dirty parts of historical texts. But does this himself when doing a review of FATAL.

FATAL Fridays was partially predicated on this basis - that we wouldn't skip anything at all, no matter if it took until Byron finds out and murders me with an axe or a lawsuit - but either way I'd say MacLennan and Sartin would be quite fucking right to focus on the dirty parts, because that's the only place this game has any real substance.

It's a little disturbing, but so far the dirty parts are the only parts in the rulebook that don't read like they were written by some pretentious graduate student with a passing knowledge of analytical writing.

I'm going to avoid Sartin's talk about what Byron Hall's "one thousand hours of research" were actually spent doing, because there are much better things to criticize here and you can find it on your own if you wish.

. . . okay, I lied.

Judging by the level of Jason's criticism alone, I can't help but think that Jason would surely fail a comparison between my sex life and his. Why are we even talking about sex life?

Great question, but if I had to take a guess, it's ~~because I fucked your mom last night~~ because that's the usual kind of insult on the Internet.

Burnout: I’m just wondering. As much as Sartin’s criticisms are based on the Fatalists having cowardice to approach women or being rejected by them. I wonder if this is projection.

Perhaps. Yahtzee's certainly advanced the theory before. Still, the game's misogyny would lead most sane people to think that, in a fair world (which Earth is not) the writers of a game like this would never, ever, ever, know the touch of a woman. (Me, bitter? What?)

Although I included basic physiognomy and the concept of ether in FATAL, I have never respected either (obviously). Just another instance of things I put in the game that I disagree with, but see them as appropriate to FATAL. I wonder how much Jason knows about noncognitivism.

For all you know, he's a psychology or philosophy major who wrote a graduate thesis on it. You do realize you're assuming, right? Or is that only bad when other people do it?

Anyway, to Byron's credit, he didn't actually assign game effects to physiognomic features, just perceived effects. I'm not sure what the difference would be in actual gameplay, but it is worth raising this point.

Burnout: I actually to a degree respect the idea of noncognitivism. I know most people don’t but it’s a matter of opinion, I guess.

This would be an interesting philosophical argument to have, because I understand noncognitivism's value - for example, some people eat dogs, though the rest of us would feel morally offended at the idea - at the same time I think there are some pretty objective moral statements out there - for example, it's wrong to go out killing and raping randomly.

I'm beginning to worry that this bunch is mellowing me out.

By the way, did I mention that this book is 900 pages long?

Yes, yes you did. It's now 1,003. Quit yer bitchin'.

Redundancy.

A little necessary. It's 1,003 fucking pages.

'Cause I'm going to be bringing it up as this review progresses.

Great.

A lot.

Wonderful.

Because you bastards owe me.

Great attitude.

Yours isn't much better. Of course, I suppose since you missed the whole part of the review where they mention it wasn't going to be very objective at all, and you seem to lack a sense of humor, this is to be expected.

Then again, they are attacking your baby - your grossly mutated, sex-obsessed, somewhat developmentally challenged baby - and it's natural to go mama bear on their asses.

Sartin: Yeah, what he said. I never thought I'd see actually wanting to play Imagine or Palladium, but now that I've gone through FATAL, damned if I can even remember what sucked so much about them.

Ugh. Fuck "owing", gentle readers. I'm coming for your young.

Oh, Christ.

Burnout: Hmmm.. Short term memory loss. Are we so sure it’s not Sartin who has the “large, skull shaped bong."

I'm pretty sure it's long-term memory loss that you're talking about, because short-term memory only stores things for about 20-30 seconds. If anyone's suffering from memory loss here, it's you, Burnout, because you can't seem to remember how to write in English.

Rhetorical interrogatives end in a question mark, remember? Sort of like this?

What makes FATAL especially fun is the droning, obsessive tone of its rules sections - for example:

Finally, observe that when these sub-abilities and abilities are determined initially for a character, the abilities are determined for young adults. After the sub-abilities are described and the tables presented, aging effects are illustrated which must be referenced throughout the character's life. The last chapter details how two abilities, Physical Fitness and Strength, may be increased through persistent exercise, and also, an alternate rolling method is presented.

I realize that most people might not get this, but I've dealt with way too many pretentious little bastards before - and yes, Pretense, and its friend Arrogance, are two of my pet peeves - and that above, the part from the game, is not good prose. I'll go through it in a minute.

Although the current version has not been made available in over a month due to numerous little changes, it will be possible (in the same # of pages) to also increase Intelligence with use (or its converse). This is cited from The Executive Brain and Owner's Manual for the Brain.

I like how he missed the point of the argument.

And there's that not-English again; where, when you rewrite it for a review, you find yourself restructuring the way that you speak English. Sure, you may have been able to write and/or speak it before; but then you read something like this, and you find yourself taking sentences out into the shed at midnight, butchering them, burying parts of them in the backyard and then redistributing what's left over the original document as a warning to any other proper use of the language in the book.

That was a lengthy way for Darren to say he dislikes my prose (especially since there's little, if anything, grammatically wrong with it, while both Darren and Jason commit split infinitives, dangling prepositions, etc. throughout their review).

There's this one James Thurber quote I love, even though it makes you sound like you support domestic violence: "Word has somehow got around that a split infinitive is always wrong. This is of a piece with the sentimental and outworn notion that it is always wrong to strike a lady." I quite agree with it.

After all, "to boldly go where no man has gone before" sounds quite better than the grammatically correct version.

Also, Byron assumes that because his prose follows (he says) the letter of the law, or grammar, he's perfectly fine. Not true; you have to follow the spirit, too. Grammatically correct prose is a minimum - a bare slate - on which you build with clear sentences, strong prose, and FATAL fails on both these counts, repeatedly.

Let's see if this particular paragraph can give me anything to work with:

Finally, observe that when these sub-abilities and abilities are determined initially for a character, the abilities are determined for young adults. After the sub-abilities are described and the tables presented, aging effects are illustrated which must be referenced throughout the character's life. The last chapter details how two abilities, Physical Fitness and Strength, may be increased through persistent exercise, and also, an alternate rolling method is presented.

There's one big fat problem with the above, which is not grammatical, but stylistic, and not a matter of choice - it's up there with the split infinitive as a no-no in writing.

Of course, I can't fault a science major for this, but Byron hasn't learned that you don't use the passive voice all willy-nilly when writing. Good prose minimizes it to usages that are inevitable, such as "I was born." Most of the time, it kills the strength of the sentence and overtaxes the participle.

Burnout: I think they just have trouble understanding Byron's prose, is all. They actually have to think for a minute and I bet that hurts to know that the one who created FATAL has a better understanding of the English language than they do.

This might be hard for you to understand, since, well, you smoke pot, but if you have to think a minute when you read a game rulebook, it's not good prose. Also, that subordinate clause (". . . and I bet . . . than they do") seems to be a backhanded insult against Byron. I wonder what happened there.

Also, trust me when I say this - though it's not much - I have a better understanding of English than you do, and it's not even my first motherchipping language.

See, try this:

These abilities only represent your character at the start of his life, so they will change as he ages; charts for this are elsewhere. Later on, we'll detail how you can increase your Strength and Physical Fitness, as well as an alternate method of rolling dice. Also, since you're reading FATAL, you should probably be aware that this game sucks.

Not particularly good either (I would've kept a couple things from the last one, if in the active voice), but it'll keep the rain out.

I'm sure it's obvious, but just to be safe, I never wrote a single sentence above.

You know, you seem to think your fans are really stupid.

Burnout: I think it’s quite obvious given the fact Darren states “These abilities only represent your character at the start of his life”. I could just imagine that. “This is one strong baby you’ve got here miss.” Also the fact he doesn’t state where the charts and details are for increasing sub-abilities are at. Now I don’t claim to have the greatest grasp of the English language, as far as grammar, but Byron’s writing, to me, is far easier to reference.

Agreed, MacLennan dashed it off without adding some of the nice touches that would've been added in editing. Still, his prose is less turgid than FATAL's, or than Isabel de Madariaga's Ivan the Terrible, but that's not saying much in either case.

Also, the whole deal about the strong baby is just lazy nitpicking.

See? English. No Grant Morrison-esque portals opened up into a not-world in which the English language was thrown down, danced upon and then sodomized. Not yet, at least.

I wonder if Darren is aware that his English, at least as presented here, is worse than that in FATAL.

You, sir, are a liar! And your pants are on FIRE!

[/pacino]

No, seriously. Fuck "historically accurate," or "mythically accurate," or whatever other big fat commercial claims these people have made. This is the single most damnable lie Byron Hall has ever uttered.

FATAL, if you haven't downloaded it yet, is not in English. It is in some alternate language that has the same alphabet as English, the same words as English, but where the grammar has changed to be, in places, damn near unrecognizable, and where the general level of pretense in the language has increased exponentially. It is a language spoken, written, and read exclusively by people who think their brains are too big for their heads (and their britches). It is a language that seeks some sort of sterile, academic beauty, and fails even at that.

Therefore, Darren's "English" cannot be any worse than that in FATAL, because FATAL is not in English.

What? Could I do any better? Damn skippy. Let's take a look at that paragraph again:

Finally, observe that when these sub-abilities and abilities are determined initially for a character, the abilities are determined for young adults. After the sub-abilities are described and the tables presented, aging effects are illustrated which must be referenced throughout the character's life. The last chapter details how two abilities, Physical Fitness and Strength, may be increased through persistent exercise, and also, an alternate rolling method is presented.

Here's how I would've written it, keeping in mind it's for a game manual.

Finally, note that these abilities and sub-abilities apply to characters in young adulthood. Aging effects, which affect characters' abilities as they progress through life, are presented later, along with another way to roll for abilities and sub-abilities. The last chapter details how characters can increase two of their abilities, specifically Physical Fitness and Strength, through persistent exercise.

I probably would've restructured it so that it wouldn't be necessary to type "abilities" so damn much, but that's, again, finishing touches during the editing process.

Sartin: Needless to say, there aren't any editors, copyeditors, proofreaders, or non-retards in FATAL's credits. I'm not convinced there are any human beings, either, but we won't get into that.

As stated before, credits are not listed...yet.

Burnout: Obviously not, as Sartin stated before we are demigods.

Instead, I'd rather take this moment to rant that this is a great example of why editors are really damned important if you're writing a RPG. They're not just good for correcting typos, but making sure your writing technique does not end up sucking all that is ass. If you're not the best writer in the history of the universe, don't end up like FATAL! Get those editors!

I have to be one of the few writers I know who really, really likes editors. This is for one principal reason: I'm a compulsive one myself, and as much as I may dislike the fixes made to my work by other people, I can usually understand the reasoning behind them.

Plus, unlike Byron and Burnout, I'm not arrogant enough to think my writing is perfect. I may disagree with other people's corrections on a personal level, but usually I can see their reasoning, compromise, or take a third option that makes me and whoever my current "editor" is happy.

I'm sure the reader noticed that again, Jason did not support his claim that English is problematic in FATAL. How many times does this need to be said? Somebody, please count.

No, Sartin didn't support his claim, but MacLennan did show an example, however small, of what they are both criticizing - I suppose you expect them both to back up the same argument, which might be fair, or stupid, depending on your point of view. Mine's actually the first.

Look, I realize that you don't like it when your baby's being hit, but the fact is that if you have any shred of self-respect and you consider yourself a writer in any form, the first step is learning to let go of your work when it's in the whole ekdosis phase and copies belong to people beyond you and yours. The second step is learning to accept that you might not be perfect, and neither is your work.

So check this out: There's five primary stats, right? But, in a nod towards the residents of insane asylums who smear the walls with their own feces, each stat has four sub-stats which determine vital, important information like, say, enunciation, or kinetic beauty. So, you actually have a stat that determines how well you can speak, or how pretty it looks when you move.

Actually, I like this part of FATAL, though I think it's misused. To use a highly specific example, I always wondered why Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, an RPG I greatly enjoyed, didn't have derived stats like this. It seemed a natural fit.

Plus, I've used this kind of thing in all my aborted attempts at designing game systems.

You should have used "that" instead of "which". Enunciation and Kinetic Charisma (not beauty -- by now the reader should not expect accuracy from Darren) are important sub-abilities (not sub-stats).

There's nitpicking, there's being an asshole, and then there's this.

Mind you, the first point is fair. The second one is stupid. The third one is outright moronic. For some reason, Byron thinks that the vocabulary he uses for his game should be the standard throughout the industry.

For example, if a character is a spell-caster, then Enunciation is important to their spell-casting. Enunciation is also important to bards. Kinetic Charisma is important to a dancer, and probably anyone trying to seduce another character. There are well over 100 occupations, and each uses a different blend of the sub-abilities. Did Darren read the game?

He obviously did, you self-aggrandizing turducken, or else he wouldn't have known how to explain this part of it.

Burnout: Just to elaborate once again. Imagine a mage getting charged by a hill troll. Before the troll gets there, which is determined by the sub-ability of physical fitness, the mage tries to cast Wooden Carapice, which would give himself an additional 15 to current armor. Enunciation would determine if he could speak the chant fast enough to cast the spell.

That's carapace, not carapice. Capisce?

I suppose it's better to have a sub-stat (I refuse to call them "sub-abilities") deal with this kind of thing, although it does tend to make the game a little harder to learn. D&D would probably suggest you use a Dexterity check, or perhaps a Charisma one, but I don't know many other systems that would have a specific way of doing it.

Of course, some would say winging it is half the sun.

Also, "Just to elaborate once again" is not a sentence. It is a fragment. There's a difference.

Fragment: In case I haven't said this already.

Sentence: Burnout's English is shit.

Verstehen Sie?

Sartin: Would this be a bad place to mention that you have to randomly roll all 20 sub-abilities? And the roll is 4d100, halve it, and subtract 1? Then you go back and calculate each primary ability by averaging all four of its sub-abilities. Which is really cool when you consider that primary abilities are rarely if ever used by the rules.

I'll have to reserve judgment on this until I actually play the game, but on the face of it (which includes reading the section in question), that's part of why I think the system is misused. Primary abilities should be key, not just an abstract made from its sub-abilities.

4d100 has changed to 10d100. Keep in mind that a character can be created in five minutes or less with the FATAL Character Generator, available free at fatalgames.com. Then again, the complexity of determining sub-abilities ((10d100)/5 - 1), compared to other RPG's, supports my claims that it is the most difficult, detailed, and realistic RPG available. I mentioned realism because the curve produced by 10d100 is superior to anything else I've seen, as well as the fact that the mean is 100, which is easy to interpret. Therefore, the statistical curves produced by rolling for sub-abilities in FATAL are more realistic, and represent real distributions better than other RPG's. Although primary abilities are used less frequently than sub-abilities, I disagree with "rarely". Just the same, the focus is on sub-abilities, not abilities.

The process supports your claims - but how does the process support realism, specifically? Do you have some charts up in your room for average human Kinetic Charisma that you painstakingly researched with the help of an Oxford anthropologist? Did you sit down and work out Enunciation for every human being on the planet and determine the curve?

Also, I checked out some of the characters generated with this program - if you're interested, I believe Portal of Evil has a few entries about it, such as this - and they ain't exactly playable characters: the generator could actually make your character be born dead, which included a "Ha ha! Fuck You!" message. Mature. Very mature.

Burnout: Go ahead and make about 20 characters and see how well they fit into the Bell curve. I’ve tried and it’s much more accurate than anything I’ve seen.

Well, obviously I can't do this now, as I lack the generator. I still promise to create at least one or two characters. Eventually.

So, basically, saying that this game should be burned is an insult to fire.

Saying that this game should be burned is an insult to RPG's and gamers worldwide.

Saying that this game should be burned is an insult to Byron Hall and everyone else who contributed to the creation of the game. Whether it's a deserved or undeserved insult is up to the individual person to decide. Period.

The worst part of reviewing this shit is that I actually have to think about it. I actually have to read this shit, then try to explain it to you, then I have to spend half an hour with a pencil up my nose trying to fish out the piece of brain that died the minute that I tried to use it to understand FATAL. And God almighty, that's not a fun job. I'm genuinely worried that this is going to start interfering with my life, so that I start wind up adding on pointless, redundant statistics to everything that I do, like the guy who writes Hybrid.

In other words, reading bad RPGs turns you into a statistics major.

Based on the lack of quality of Darren's comments, I doubt he thought about FATAL or read much at all.

Or possibly he disagreed with your opinion that FATAL is the king of all tabletop roleplaying games and should be worshipped by gamers worldwide.

Yes, it's an opinion, Byron, sweetie. Just because you think so doesn't make it a fact.

Burnout: Come on now, giving credit where it’s due he probably read it. Just he couldn’t understand most of it. That’s why he’s thinking so hard and “fishing out his brain."

You know, for someone who professes to "take the rhetoric out" of statements, not only do you engage in ad hominem attacks, but you also change words in quotes, and you don't seem to have anything resembling a good grasp of the English language . . .

Also, for x=(c)(number of words in review)*ycc+kill me you fucks kill me.

What?

Sartin: It's hard to believe, but even Hybrid is less of a waste of atoms than FATAL. You can catch my review of it here.

Just for example: Charisma includes Facial Charisma (how good you look), Vocal Charisma (how you sound,) Kinetic Charisma (how pretty you look when you move), and Rhetorical Charisma (how fast you CAN FUCKING SPEAK.) That's right, everybody: You can determine how fast your character can speak, in words per minute. What a statistic.

Hybrid is just as bad, IMNSHO, but it seems the person who writes Hybrid is just obsessed with calculus or some sort of advanced algebra - unlike the people who write FATAL, who are obsessed with violence and rape.

While speech rate may seem pointless to a reviewer who doesn't read closely, Rhetorical Charisma is important to some characters, just as with Enunciation and Kinetic Charisma, noted above. Above all, the information is there, if needed. If not needed, it doesn't need to be read.

You missed a step - if it doesn't need to be read, it shouldn't fucking be there.

Burnout: Just a side note, Facial Charisma is not how good you look. It’s how good your face looks.

[/facepalm]

Fair point, though it's still unnecessary nitpicking.

Sartin: Yeah, where to begin? I mean, I can't count the number of campaigns I've seen where it matters whether your face can be THAT much prettier than your body. But don't worry. Even if you blow that 4d100/2-1 roll for it, you can beat it by wearing a bag over your head, like most FATALites probably do in real life.

It would be interesting to have a poll with hundreds of anonymous participants who rate photos of their faces and ours, just to see.

Probably, although knowing you, you'd ask a few people (like, say, Mrs. Hall) to be the aforementioned "anonymous participants." I don't think you could bear the thought of anyone rating you lower than Sartin or MacLennan.

Burnout: I believe in giving details so here we go again. Imagine, if you will, fighting your way to the top of a tower where a female mage is attempting to cast the spell FATAL upon the world. Now when you get there you have the option of outright killing her. But there are so many options in FATAL one of which is trying to seduce her and make her break her concentration as a by-product. Now being a mage of high enough level to cast FATAL she obviously has high skill points in spell casting, familiarity. So in order to break her concentration you need to seduce her AND roll a high enough sexual adeptness check to be considered exceptional (80 or higher). In order to do this it would help to have high Facial Charisma and Bodily Attractiveness sub-abilities.

The example is a little contrived, but I think it can fly. I haven't read up on the game's magic system yet, so I don't know why just flirting with the mage wouldn't work, as opposed to having sex with her.

With that, we have reached our 5,000 words (or 5,067 words) so I'm afraid we'll have to stop there. We actually reached some stuff actually material to playing the game, which means I may have to start doing game sessions to bring us up to speed once again - I'll try, that's really all I can promise.

May your sub-abilities always tend towards the high end of the bell curve.

FATAL: Review Session #4

2009-10-22T00:00:00.000-07:00

All right, it's been a few weeks, so I'm hoping to have "fresh platitudes" (Goldwynism! Whoo!) for you all. Remember, I'm charcoal, Darren's orange juice, Jason's aquamarine, Burnout's weed green and Byron's FATAL red. (Color mileage may vary. Blogger sucks at being honest with that stuff.)

Anyway, where did we leave off again?

Sartin: During the FATAL flame wars, Hall really did have that psychotically calm John Doe demeanor in his posts. It might actually have been impressive, but any chance for that went out the window when he never defended any of his bullshit arguments or claims when MacLennan, Patrick Chipman, and everyone else started questioning him. Well, and when I couldn't help picturing him in a lavender bunny suit as he typed. (Okay, no, that's not originally what I was picturing him doing, but it's a sanity-preserving substitute.)

I wasn't there at the time, and RPG.net disallowed searching, so obviously I can't testify as to this. I'll grant that if this was the kind of thing he had to defend against, I can see why he thinks he won the argument. (Again, can't say definitively.)

In debates, I always remain calm and unemotional. Actually, every post is available to anyone who desires to view them at RPGnet. Since this is verifiable, Jason either lies, or simply doesn't know any better.

Or, I suppose, has a different opinion from you of what is "verifiable" about your comments. Sadly, the posts aren't exactly available anymore since I'm not going to pick through the whole thing for FATAL.

I attempted to defend my claims when questioned. However, there was hardly any questioning, and most posts resemble the level presented by Darren and Jason in this review.

Non-English - he never says what quantity it is that he's measuring with the word level. Minor, however, and again, if this was nothing but degenerate flaming (or as a friend would say, "falming"), then it's pretty easy to concede the point.

When I realised, by and large, RPGnetters were aversive to reason and driven by emotion, I stopped posting. When Darren MacLennan chose libel and defamation of character to debate, I stopped posting.

Repetition works in speeches, not so much in writing. Also, it's "averse" - and no, I don't care if "aversive" is a word, he should learn to use regular vocabulary.

So far, my credibility must seem immeasurably beyond that of Darren and Jason. I am credible because I am honest, professional, and a scholar. Nothing seems to drive these two crazier. I will always be open to debating FATAL.

You know who else is honest, professional, and a scholar? This guy. He's got a doctorate, no? He documents and researches his works properly, so I think that makes him a scholar. He's been honest. He's been professional. Arthur Butz, however, happens to believe that six million Jews were not killed in the Holocaust. Given how everyone from the prisoners to the camp guards says they were, Butz's credibility is shit, especially if you, like me, believe that Holocaust denial is one of the stupidest alternative historical theories to come out of left field in the last century.

And I am now on the second page.

If you want another good example of how the game's authors seem desperate to lie to themselves, and by extension the reader, you can check out their claims that they're not really sexually deviant; they're just including it for the purpose of completeness. For example:

The information in this game does not represent the world-views of Fatal Games, nor is extreme violence or extreme sex condoned by Fatal Games. Instead, the information is included for completeness.

Quotes or italics should've been used on those last three lines, which are from the game. Byron will, of course, point this out.

Although you should have put quotes on my words above, let it be known I still stand by them.

Again, ladies and gentlemen: I honestly believe Byron Hall would not rape a woman. Or beat her up. Or put one of those innumerable sexually-based magic items on her. I just think he needs to keep that shit out of the games he writes, too.

And this weak bullshit might fly, if it weren't for the fact that they were openly drooling over the possibility of people extorting sexual favors and/or raping a helpless woman not one page before.

It's tiring to reiterate, but I covered numerous possibilities in the example Darren cited (by the way, I thank him for citing an example). However, he selected one possibility at the expense of the others. Darren faiedl to represent FATAL.

1. "Failed."
2. As I covered in the last session (or maybe the one before that), two of the options, not one, point to rape (a third one points to murder and cannibalism). This sounds like some extremely weird form of the teenage "oral sex isn't really sex" argument. (To any impressionable 15-year-old girls reading this: It is. Don't believe your boyfriend. Also, wash your mouth out and stop reading these reviews. They're not for you.)

Burnout: Along with failing to represent FATAL, Darren also doesn’t realize that in more than 95% of games “extorting sexual favors and/or raping” is not part of the story. Having been a play-tester for a few years I can say this with utmost assurance.

I'm gonna have to repeat this a lot: how in the hell is that a good thing?

Sartin: That, and it's a trick statement anyway. Remember that FATALites lack the necessary balls to even approach women in real life. Their supposed non-endorsement of rape/violence stems from cowardice, not "Hey, it's just a game."

I somehow chose every color but the right one for that paragraph. Just wanted to point that out.

What Jason knows about my personal life, for example, is obviously far less than his insinuation. For example, my wife studies bioengineering and used to be a model. I don't think much of most college curriculums, but if my claims are true, then she is at least reasonably intelligent and attractive.

Well, I've seen models I'd consider "unattractive" (then again, I'm a face man) and as someone who goes to a major research university, I can tell you not every bioengineering student is good at what they do, or even smart.

Furthermore, I like the random comment about college "curriculums" [sic]. It's "curricula," as any self-proclaimed scholar should know, and all it does here is show (misplaced) arrogance, instead of advancing any specific point.

To my delight, I would argue that she is an advanced scholar (knowing many stupid scholars, I mean a smart one), and exceedingly beautiful. We are identical in age, and born only one week apart. She is everything to me, and yes, she is a woman. Jason's arguments provide no substance or challenge.

Frankly, no, they didn't. I suppose they weren't exactly hyperbole either - so I'll have to concede the point. Though I do have to say that the "to my delight" looks a little misplaced and/or weird, from a stylistic point of view, and that just a bit ago Byron mentioned that his credibility was better because he was a "scholar." That display of academic arrogance is reduced a little by the mention of "stupid scholars" here, which introduces subjectivity into the argument, and I did always think Byron didn't want that - subjectivity is part of emotion, after all.

Burnout: I would say that goes for all Fatalists that I know as well. That what he knows is far less than his insinuation. I refuse to get into my personal life but I’ll just say there is no “lack of necessary balls” or “cowardice”. That being said there is also no lack of opposite gender choice for me. I like to have options.

I hope it isn't true for the guy who posted this on his site, or all those chauvinistic cracks I've been hearing about American women suddenly ring truer. ("He's the coolest." Serious-fucking-ly.)

But hey. If you don't want to play dirty by personally attacking the FATALites, just consider this: "Okay, they don't condone rape, misogyny, and five hundred foot nutsacks...they're just really proud that the overwhelming focus FATAL puts on rape, misogyny, and five hundred foot nutsacks makes it SO much more 'realistic' and 'historically/mythically accurate' than every other RPG available!"

Sadly, too true.

If the reader considers Jason's claim, then the reader should be compelled to measure the degree of focus on rape, for instance. This is necessary, because Jason does not do it himself, to support his claim. There is only a focus on rape on 2 pages out of 900.

Covered this already. Of course, since according to Byron and John (Burnout), a "focus" is simply mentioning it, I'd have to say I've seen plenty of focus from this review alone, and that was cherry-picking. Zo and I have mentioned more, I'm sure.

Since page numbers vary as material is added or the game is edited, I will direct your attention to the Wrestling skill in Chapter 8: Skills. Specifically, please read the last two paragraphs of Overbearing. Note that the female has a chance to injure the would-be rapist.

So what? All that does is prevent the rapist from being a Gary Stu (there's never any mention of female rape).

This section on rape is intended to present it realistically, not from a biased perspective of a rapist. Elsewhere in Chap. 6: Sociality, Medieval Prostitution is cited for the information on rape in societal terms.

Society. It's SOCIETY. Use clear English, for Chrissakes. This is the kind of crap that gets writing rejected, or if it's my university's literary journal, accepted with flying colors.

Second, as discussed, Rossiaud's Medieval Prostitution is a bad source. It talks exclusively about 15th century French prostitution and tries to use it to generalize all medieval prostitution, which is poor scholarship. Furthermore, European medieval prostitution was shaped partly by - you guessed it - Christianity, women's rights (what few there were), contemporary philosophy, development of the feudal state, and so on.

Given that "foreign" influences never came onto Europe, something is obviously rotten in the land of Neveria.

Aside from these, there are spells involving rape. I have not counted them or their total length in numbers of pages, and do not consider it necessary. Please note that they are referenced from Greek Magical Papyri, and are accurate to the translated scrolls. To make this clear, spells from Greek scrolls have italicized titles, while spells invented by myself and others have non-italicized titles.

So, basically, you failed to include evidence that would support your argument, and included a comment that has nothing to do with the rest of your argument here. (Unless your argument is that it's not your fault that they exist, because you just translated them.) Great job.

I have not counted spells involving rape that are either Greek or invented, but doubt that invented spells are disproportionate in number. In short, if a reader compares the amount of material involving rape in FATAL with material that does not, the reader will find it to be a very small portion, and not out of line with history.

Fair enough.

There are no instances of misogyny (woman-hating) in FATAL that outnumber instances of man-hating (for lack of a better term). Either rarely occurs, but only misogyny is cited by Darren and Jason.

Patently fucking false, as we'll prove once we get to spells and magical items.

Also, the "better term" for man-hating is misandry. It's been around for a while, it's not that much of a neologism, and you should've bothered to look this up on the Internet, in a dictionary, etc. Hell, I thought I'd coined it at one point.

As far as I know, the gigantic and magically altered scrotum is only a single instance in Appendix 3: Random Magical Effects, of which there are 2,000. Most of the random magical effects are intended as humorous, since they may include anything. However, if anyone finds a historically accurate list of random magical effects, please contact Fatal Games, and expect to see them included, as would be true to the premises of the game.

So the game is historically accurate, mythically accurate, realistic . . . and humorous. Well, the last term is a lie: I haven't yet so much as chuckled at anything I've read in the game. Furthermore, if it is in fact humorous, it's so in an extremely juvenile, sex-and-violence-obssessed and misogynistic way as to dislocate your ribs.

2,085 words. Hmm.

Doesn't really work, does it?

Your approach? No, it doesn't.

I have to disagree here: if anything, it worked too well. There's a reason it's still thought of as one of the unholy triad of tabletop RPGs.

Or, even better:

For instance, the detail of violence may exceed that of other role-playing games, as crucial damage may explicitly explore the destruction of many body parts and internal organs.

Except that what the guys at FATAL know about medical science and/or the human body is so small as to actually suck away from the collected body of medical knowledge; as a matter of fact, there are entire anatomy texts that are now blank because the knowledge has been drained away to fill the terrible wound that FATAL made.

We'll be seeing this as we move along.

While I am not a medical doctor, I think the reader will find that my anatomy is better than the arguments of Darren and Jason.

Your "anatomy" - as in your penis? That's what referring to your "anatomy" has meant for quite a while, Byron, sweetie.

I originally intended to go a little further, but it seems I have no desire to continue with this particular session. When I am once again able to type a 5,000-word review session, you will have it.

FATAL: Review Session #3

2009-10-15T00:00:00.000-07:00

Obviously, if you're reading this, I've proven resistant enough to go through a third round of the FATAL reviews. This should qualify me as a perfect CIA operative already, but let's not get too hasty.

Quick review of the colors on all sides: MacLennan = orange juice, Sartin = aquamarine, Burnout = weed green, Byron = FATAL red, and me = charcoal.

OK, let's start this shit up.

But yeah. It's nine hundred pages long, and you can hardly turn one page without seeing something that's desperately stupid or sucking or screaming "Look how COOL and HISTORICALLY ACCURATE and HUGE DICKED I am, because I'm terrified you won't notice!". You can see the bind we're in.

No period necessary, but other than that, he's fairly accurate up until the game's 200th page. Yes, I've only read that far. I have a part-time job, I sleep a lot, and most of the time I'm awake is reserved for productive stuff, like not reading FATAL.

AD&D 2e, when considering all rulebooks, far exceeded 900 pages. I mention this game because of its popularity. AD&D 2e, however, seemed to offer numerous books to financially take advantage of consumers, otherwise known as a good business strategy. I refuse to do so, and believe gamers would rather have it all together without redundancy. I will continue to refute claims that FATAL is not historically accurate, given its premises. So far, arguments by Darren and Jason are weak in this respect. Oh, and I never once mentioned the size of my personal manhood, regardless of how proud of it I am.

You're gonna see this keep happening - he will keep taking metaphorical stuff, meant to make a point in a roundabout way, as a literal personal attack. However, as I've had to repeat again to prove to you bunch that I'm not (that) biased: he's right. The arguments on the opposing side sucked as far as historical accuracy goes. FATAL Fridays was partly founded on the basis that, even "given its premises" (read: removed anything that permits women or other races to have any real power), FATAL is bad alternate history writing.

Burnout: I would just like to take this time to do some adding. Hmm, DnD 3e Player's Handbook, 301 pages...Dungeon Master's Guide, 256 pages...Psionics Handbook, 156 pages. Now that's 713 right there and I know there are many more books in the DnD 3e collection.

Why the Psionics Handbook? Wouldn't the Monster Manual, which is referred to in both the others as the third rulebook, be more useful for comparison (as it's bigger as well)? In fact, 3.5 Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual all add up to 985 pages on PDF - 18 pages less than FATAL's ostensible second edition, but as Byron said, redundant in some places, and probably made to suck more money out of customers. You're welcome.

Let me remind you, however, that all those "many more books" in the D&D 3rd Edition compendium are not necessary to play. I don't need Complete Mage to tell me how to play my wizard, and though I know a guy who's big on playing paladins and good-aligned deities and all that, he doesn't need the Book of Exalted Deeds to spin a good yarn about them.

However, there's a very easy way to counteract this. You could've split the books and sold each book at a fraction of the price at which you would've sold the whole thing. I'm no mathematician, but I think I can make up an expression (or equation or whatever) here that'll let me show it.

Let p be the price at which you would've sold the whole FATAL compendium, and then b be the number of books into which you would've split FATAL.

Price of one FATAL sourcebook/rulebook = p/b

Not that hard. Still a good business strategy, too.

This is from the second page:"For instance, assume you are an adventuring knight who has just fought his way to the top of a dark tower where you find a comely young maiden chained to the wall. Some may choose to free the whimpering wench. Others may free her while hoping to win her heart. Instead of seeking affection, some may talk to her to see if they can collect a reward for her safe return. Then again, others may be more interested in negotiating freedom for fellatio. Some may think she has no room to bargain and take their fleshly pleasures by force. Others would rather kill her, dismember her young cadaver, and feast on her warm innards."

In case you forgot, Zo and I went over this one already.

So, basically, FATAL is the date rape RPG.

Uh, no it's not, and Byron will show us why.

Another faulty conclusion drawn by Darren. Where is dating included?

So it's just the rape RPG? How is that an improvement on MacLennan's argument? In trying to beat his logic, you may have just screwed over your defense.

More to the point, multiple ways of role-playing are mentioned, ranging from 'good' to 'evil' (though in real life I hesitate to use those terms).

I wonder why he hesitates to use those terms in real life. It's a side note he never goes into with any measure of profundity. Seems to me that most of the above outcomes can be pretty clearly defined as "good" or "evil."So let's look at the oeuvre.

Freeing the "whimpering wench": Probably good, although if the knight thinks a princess chained to a wall is a whimpering wench, he's also probably a bit of a misogynist.
Freeing her to win her heart: Not the purest of motives, undoubtedly. Still, I would say this is a good action, since he doesn't specifically ask for a reward.
Talking to her to obtain a reward: This one's difficult. The knight might be looking to be able to pay oats for his horse or some such. Then again, he may not be. So we'll call this one neutral, leaning to evil depending on the reward.
Negotiating freedom for fellatio: Um, that's already pretty evil. Rape includes sex obtained by coercion, especially as the princess isn't really in a position to express lack of consent.
Taking fleshly pleasures by force: Yep, evil.
Killing her, dismembering her young corpse, and feasting on her warm innards: Evil enough to pop your fucking ears with streams of blood.

Why he focuses on rape is for him to answer. As mentioned elsewhere, FATAL is intended to be comprehensive, and if examined, the reader will find balance between 'good' and 'evil'.

He focuses on rape because you do. I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but your game emphasizes it to the hilt. FATAL is so comprehensive, in fact, that I just looked at the whole oeuvre and saw three different ways of committing pretty obvious, unarguable evil, one unquestionably good (if a little sexist) way of roleplaying, and two questionably good ways of roleplaying, one because of lack of information.

Sartin: It's also the cock fruit, attacking turd, and (of course) gay buttfucking ogre RPG, but one thing at a time! [It's like an express train full of things designed to hurt your mind; just when you think that it's finished running you over, another car hits you, grinding yet another valuable part of your soul beneath its wheels.]

That's the first vivid metaphor I've seen Sartin use that doesn't make me curl up in the fetal position.

Obviously, it is a game that attempts to provide a balance of all things, a true system in which a gamer can do anything they want, provided the others around the table have similar views. For example, it's also the courtly love and chivalry RPG, but anyone who is a competent reviewer would offer a representative sample of the game, not just that which fascinates them.

Chivalry and courtly love are Christian concepts. They were first codified under the Catholic church and the first Christian kingdoms to keep the medieval knight, who otherwise could terrorize and plunder as he pleased with effectively unlimited resources, from being nothing more than a robber baron. However, Christianity doesn't exist in your game. See? Given your premises, historically inaccurate.

Secondly, I repeat - he'll keep making this kind of sneak attack on MacLennan and Sartin (insulting them directly would be dignifying them), but he keeps forgetting that if MacLennan and Sartin focused so much on one specific aspect, it's for a reason. A good reason, in this case.

There's not really a whole lot of ways that I can get around this: FATAL, as a whole, is your chance to stop being the good guy and start being the soulless rapist that you and your tiny clique of brain-dead morons knew they could be. You can come home from a long day of being shunned by anybody with a soul, wipe the Mace from your eyes, scuttle down into the cold concrete of the basement and engage in what amounts to a verbal circle-jerk with a clique of people just as terribly broken as you are.

Consistent with my previous comment, FATAL also provides a chance to be ethical and moral beyond any other RPG. Although I philosophically disagree with the foundations of the disposition system, it is more thorough and coherent in terms of ethics and morals than any other RPG. I doubt that either Darren or Jason read the game, other than thumbing through for ammunition to support their biases. By the way, it is best to avoid redundancies, like a "soulless rapist". Again, Darren should think before he writes.

FATAL can provide all the morality it wants, but judging by what we're seeing, I don't think morality fits that much into the average FATAL player's mind. Obviously you disagree with it, I assume most of your contributors disagree with it, and I think the average FATAL player doesn't give a shit, which is why they'll all play Neutral Immoral characters till the cows come home.

I think it is pretty obvious that MacLennan and Sartin didn't read the whole way through the game - if they did, though, kudos - but the truth is, this is one case where their biases work, because it's their bias in favor of all that is good and holy.

I like the subtle joke - the stuff about the "soulless rapist." I think it's mostly there because Byron doesn't think anyone has a soul, since he's an avowed atheist. I should add that if you've been here for FATAL Fridays, you know exactly why Byron shouldn't be talking about how bad someone else's writing is.

Burnout: A couple of additions to that, if you don't mind, Byron. It's also the grocery-getter, castle-building, weapon- and armor-forging, king-serving, self-serving, or master-serving RPG. Just wanted to point out some of how many more detailed options there are for a PC rather than just saying an NPC does all the un-fun (for lack of a better term) acts.

". . . if you don't mind, Byron." No, you've just been fucking up his arguments for some time now, why don't you keep going?

There is a better term for "un-fun," John. It's called boring. Somehow, between the genius scientist Byron Hall and his partner Burnout, there aren't enough brain cells to run a basic mental thesaurus.

Sartin: I'll cut in here to say that while being a brain-dead rapist is an important part of the FATAL experience, there are two further aspects that make it the visible-from-space pile of festering associty that it is.1) Juvenile ideas that even the SenZar guys would've been too embarrassed to touch. You know, like magical fumbles that cause clones to spawn from your cock, or make you shit constantly, or make you start anal-fisting your target while trying to bite your ear, or make you recite stupid lines that were probably ripped off from metal songs every time you cast a spell. Or magical ingredients like vaginal yeast or the "cunt-pipe" of an elderly virgin.

Well, he's right, though Zo and I won't get there for quite a while, if we stay on the pace we'd established.

Burnout: I would like to jump in here and say that maybe the reason for the embarrassment is that they aren't mature enough to handle such issues.

Well, I read the SenZar review, and though I'd have to agree that Todd King and co. didn't sound like the most mature bunch ever, they still wouldn't have written the paragraph about the knight and the princess that appeared a while ago. Yes, I'm going to keep harping on it. Sue me.

I think it's more that they'd be embarrassed over the lack of dignity this game presents. Maturity? Pfft. You said yourself those magical fumbles were for humorous effect. Don't give me bullshit about how you're mature because your game is so complete that you can have fruit coming out of your cunt-pipe.

Remember when I asked you, the reader, to consider whether or not Jason's responses are juvenile? While I admit that FATAL has some juvenile-level humor in it, it is interesting that Jason seems to be a hypocrite: he accuses FATAL of being juvenile, when his responses here, and elsewhere according to himself, have a higher proportion of it, word for word, and far fewer instances of professionalism. Thank you for remembering.

It'd sure be nice for him to win one of these, but Byron fails here on two reasons. One, he again ignored the point made at the beginning of the review: that it was meant to be partly humorous, since that's the style RPGnetters like. This is because otherwise, his defense would've seemed thin-skinned, and Byron Hall, according to himself, is not willing to be at fault.

Two, Sartin was (indirectly) quoting. If there's anything juvenile about his response, it's stuff your game put in there.

2) Rules so mind-bogglingly stupid and complicated that you'd beg for a no holds barred Rifts/Synnibarr crossover instead. Note that this can overlap with the juvenile ideas, like with how likely you are to critical hit someone's clitoris, or the magical fumble that makes your nutsack swell to 10d1000 (inches, we can only presume, it's not labeled) for the next 3d3 days.

Although Jason admits that he is unable to comprehend the game that he reviews, its rules that are "mind-bogglingly...complicated" support my argument that, at least for him, FATAL is the most difficult RPG available. I'd like to rest my case, but his emotions are running strong, so I'll continue to support this argument when necessary.

No one's said the opposite here, so the point goes to Byron. FATAL is definitely the most difficult RPG we've seen.

But like I said, one thing at a time.

Please, don't get boggled down.

The mind boggles. You get bogged down in something. There's a difference. Of course, I suppose some of these mistakes might have been caused by your emotional reaction to the news that someone dared attack your work - I've seen this as a defense by previously "professional" debaters before - but in that case, you shouldn't have put it out there for perusal.

While we're still on the second page, by the way, check out that first sentence: "Welcome to a fantasy medieval role-playing game that focuses on realism and detail whenever possible without sacrificing fun." (Emphasis mine.)

Later, when you've seen Hall's idea of "realism and detail without sacrificing fun", you'll be invited to laugh bitterly with me.

I accept, having read 200 pages of "realism and detail without sacrificing fun."

I'm willing to bet the reader will be laughing at you, not with you.

Oh snap.

Well, maybe if your reader's a pot smoker. Otherwise, I'm willing to bet the opposite, and from what I read of your game, I'd probably win that bet.

You know, it occurs to me that most games of FATAL are probably played with only the one hand, since -

Ow.

OW. OW. FUCK. MY FUCKING BRAIN. OW.

Remind me not to go down that path again.

Yeah, there's a reason Zo and I are trying not to go personal in our review. It tends to result in crap like that.

Would it do any good? I can rise above that level. Can Darren?

Well, if you let your friends have the kind of input they did on your game, obviously you can't rise above "that level." Byron, sweetie, get it through your skull - you're no better than him. MacLennan and Sartin use horrifying vivid metaphors and profanity. You use arrogance and preach to the choir. All rhetoric.

Sartin: Not so fast! You forgot to picture them being the only gamers who have to wipe off their dice when they're done! I'd bet nothing but nothing will jinx your dice faster than leaving someone's semen on them. Hell, when it happens, the FATALites probably laugh and shout (a la Saruman) "You will taste MAN JUICE!" Ugh. [Stop putting IMAGES INTO MY GODDAMN MIND, DAMMIT. OW!]

It seems like Jason gleefully went much further with Darren's idea, but is ashamed to admit how he thinks.

Or, y'know, he was making a joke. I'm not really sure on this one - obviously I don't know Sartin personally, and I'm not going to ask him about it either, since that would be asking for a psychotic episode on my hands - but I'm willing to bet it was humor.

Of course, reading it literally makes you able to give subtle hints that your critics are the perverts, not you. Welcome to the club.

See, here's the thing: Vampire is a game that can also be classified as a date-rape game. You're a vampire, a mythic creature who's been sexualized by about three hundred years worth of literature into a romantic creature; and yet, as a vampire, you're stealing a part of people's bodies without their permission, every single night. You're eventually going to kill one of them when you get a little too hungry one night.

And do you know why Vampire is the superior game by far? Because the game forces you to find out what you'll do to survive. If you have to drink somebody else's blood in order to live another night, will you do it? Will you drain some bum on the street, or stalk somebody for three hours and take only a taste? Or will you subsist on dogs and cats? Every time you stab somebody in the throat with your fangs, drink the blood - even if you're not thinking about it in the game - you're essentially risking somebody else's life for your own. You can say that you're a vampire, you have to do that, but nothing's stopping you from seeing the next sunrise except your own sense of self-preservation, even when you're already dead. Yes, you are playing a vampire in an RPG, but you can still kill yourself in the game and make it a valid, in-character choice.

Vampire sounds pretty limited. I have never played it, but it sounds like a game that focuses on one race or 'occupation', in FATAL terms: a Vampire. If this is true, FATAL offers either ten or a hundred times more role-playing possibilities, respectively. If I'm wrong about Vampire, then my apologies to the game designers. The point of an RPG should be to allow a gamer to play the role of anyone they desire. FATAL delivers.

While, as the game has remained untested by me, I will let the argument that it delivers on its premises slide, there's one big gap in this argument.

First, Vampire includes vampire clans, which are more like races or occupations. Second, from what I've read, it works on a system that doesn't technically include races or occupations: it works more on the merit of the individual vampire as determined by the skills and powers accrued, plus their statistics. Therefore, it's illogical to compare the two like this.That's without going into the fact that FATAL doesn't necessarily offer "either ten or a hundred times more role-playing possibilities, respectively." Just because you have more races or occupations doesn't mean you're offering more roleplaying possibilities. Sure, there's more choice, but roleplaying is up to players, not to the starting statistics of their characters. Not to mention that this is a pretty narrow focus on which to declare your game the more complete.

To give an example, I could hypothetically create a game where there is only one race and one occupation: human adventurer. (Just roll with it.) However, if I also make the roleplaying system around that one race/occupation comprehensive enough - hundreds of optional skills, statistic-dependent magic, something similar to D&D's feats system to gain greater abilities every few levels - it's still possible to customize that one adventurer to amazing levels.

FATAL includes occupations such as grocer and wench(/whore), but I could solve that in a single-class system simply by making an "occupation" feature similar to d20 Modern. A human adventurer with a background as a merchant might get bonuses to Appraise, Charm, and Haggle. Another one, with an academic background, might have bonuses to Language, Literacy, and Research. This is because most players would anyway want to play someone with some real ability to survive in combat, but if you must, you could always create a second class - human shopkeeper or something - that gets bonuses to other skills in order to compensate for crappier combat ability.

Did you do the research, Byron, sweetie?

Burnout: I would like to reiterate what Byron said earlier about FATAL. I doubt anywhere in Vampire does the vampire date the victim.

Are you [gasp] assuming?

Anyway, from what I've heard of Vampire, and taking into account (additionally) what MacLennan said, and - why not? - let's throw in the video games made based on it, it is perfectly in-character to date a victim. Depending on your clan, powers, and traits, maybe you're insane enough to try it, maybe you like playing with the mouse before you kill it, or maybe you actually have feelings for the person.

The point is, it can be done in-character.

So Darren don’t sugarcoat it. Vampire could be described as a rape game.

Agreed. So could FATAL. I mean, it's on the same grounds - did you think he was being unfair to FATAL by "sugarcoating" Vampire's biastic (a word I just made up to mean "rape-like") elements? All you're saying here is that FATAL is a rape game too, since dating isn't included.

Let's see if this helps a little: how in hell is that a good thing?

The low level of maturity when dealing with controversial subjects blows my mind. Anyway, I don’t really see the difference between playing a vampire and being that unlucky gamer who rolls a random mental illness and ends up with raptophilia. Either way you’re almost forced to take another human being by force and get what you need from them.

I suppose the maturity argument would hold up . . . if this guy hadn't helped create FATAL.

Well, for one thing, the vampire doesn't have to roll a random mental illness in the first place. I think what Byron and Burnout fail to understand is that not every gamer wants to have to roll all these statistics at random. That's the point of the GURPS and White Wolf traits systems (as far as I understand) - you pick bad ones to get more points for better ones. Whereas here, you're stuck with a character created or generated for you, with next to no control over it.

Interestingly, biastophilia (from the Greek biastes, "rape") is, according to some, dependent only on "assaulting an unconsenting person," but not necessarily rape per se - groping will do for most cases. Trust FATAL to have only raptophilia, which actually requires non-consensual sex.

But there is the option to kill yourself instead.

Well, suicide is painless.

Sartin: Hate to cut into Darren's pathos, but the thing I remember most from Vampire was how you can chainsaw whack someone with 8 successes and still barely hurt them. Fucking dice pools. [Oh, hush.]

Yeah, I've heard similar complaints, and not just about Vampire.

The odds in FATAL are that if you attack a character with a weapon, then they are likely to die. By the way, this is an obvious attempt at realism.

True.

But yes, sadly, even in this area, Vampire is way superior to FATAL.

Why does Jason never support his claim with evidence? In the area of attacks and the likelihood of fatality, I challenge Jason to support his claim.

I have to come down on Byron's side here. Jason completely failed to support his claim, although the combat system is discussed later - but all the discussion does is support Byron's argument that it's the most complex and most difficult RPG, which makes this a matter of opinion and thus academic to me.

Mind you, as I'm no doubt going to get tired of repeating during these triweekly sessions in self-torture, I repeat: more complex does not necessarily equal better. More complete might, though probably not if that completeness means rolling Vaginal Circumference Potential.

Burnout: I find it mockingly hilarious how Sartin says that hitting someone with a chainsaw 8 times and having them live is better than FATAL. While in FATAL most likely you’ll have trouble getting up from a footman’s flail shot. Even better eight shots. HA

You find his argument hilarious in a mocking manner? So you appreciate the humor of his statement because it mocks things? This is not English.

It's in the background, but it's there. You have to make a decision. In Vampire, it's an adult decision: Do I kill to live? In FATAL, it's "Date rape and killing and cadavers are all cool! YEEEEEEAH! THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE WAY, SPRAY PAINT HUFFING AND SOCIAL RETARDATION!"

It's boring to continue to correct Darren for failing to represent FATAL. In FATAL, you may have to make complicated socio-political decisions as a lord or lady, king or queen. Did he see that in the game? Has he actually read it?

Sociopolitical, you anachronistic bastard. Though I'd have to say that the "lady" and "queen," if they're anything like the female characters I've been hearing of in Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series (where the rape stats would fit FATAL), probably don't fit in as the kind of characters who get to make sociopolitical decisions.

Maybe there's some subculture that's into this; judging from the FATAL theme song, which sounds like the Cookie Monster chasing a drum kit being pushed down a flight of stairs, I'd guess thrash metal or speed metal or metal metal or whatever the fuck they call it nowadays.

The Cookie Monster is cool! They call that death metal.

Burnout: From what I know about the FATAL theme, it was done very quickly and probably should be redone in a better studio version. But I definitely agree that death metal is some of the best music out nowadays.

So let me say this again: you're providing a product, granted one under development, and you talk about how part of it - an extra part that has, uh, shit to do with the product itself - was dashed off and should be redone.

Do you not get the concept of doing stuff right the first time? Or at least trying? It was completely optional, tangent to your game, so you dashed it off hoping no one would notice. At least that's what it seems.

Oh, and - for all my liberal values and belief in freedom of expression - no, death metal is not "some of the best music out nowadays." In fact, from the videos a friend keeps sending me, it's as obsessed with violence, sex, death and all related topics, and (as of late) itself, as this game. I never said it wasn't fitting.

Sartin: Incidentally, the FATAL theme sucked enough to make Darren beg me to kill him. If for some reason you aren't interested in suicide, I would recommend not listening to it. Hell, I would recommend not paying attention to FATAL at all, but here you still are. You've got problems, people.

Yes, we do.

So, Jason's best means of recommending that people pay no attention to something is to do a lengthy, emotional review, in which conclusions are the result of flawed reason? If so, then I have never seen this approach before.

Some of those conclusions prove his argument better than regular ol' reason, even according to you! Remember how FATAL is just the rape RPG, not the date rape RPG, 'cause there's no dating in it?

I like how, again, we're reminded that emotion is bad and should not be relied upon.

Burnout: I have only one question. Why didn’t you do it Sartin?

I presume you mean kill MacLennan. Wow. Mature, that.

See, even the most extreme of this stuff - say, Cannibal Corpse - is designed to take a stage persona, say "Screw you, world!" for a few hours, then being regular people again; it's born out of showmanship, like an extreme form of professional wrestling sans the body slams. FATAL isn't a piece of showmanship; it's one of the diaries from Se7en, a document pretending that it's perfectly normal and healthy and winds up painting its authors as terribly, terribly maladjusted.

..."terribly, terribly"... There Darreb goes again with redundancy. FATAL is not a piece of showmanship. It is a comprehensive game, true to its premises. By the way, I think Cannibal Corpse is awesome musically, lyrically, and athletically.

1. Ellipses have spaces.
2. Repeating one fucking word is not redundancy. I realize that you think the world has never seen writing the likes of Byron Hall's, and now that we have, we'll worship you. Little clue? No.
3. Sadly, yes - FATAL is in fact a game, true to its premises. Much more sadly, you failed to understand that you're just agreeing with MacLennan's argument.
4. It's "Darren."

By the way, I think if you like Cannibal Corpse, you should go back on your meds. Though listening to songs like "Entrails Ripped From a Virgin's Cunt" definitely sounds like what would cause you to think up FATAL. There is, in fact, violent art in the Vatican (Cannibal Corpse's defense against accusations of tastelessness) but, if I can see it without throwing up, it can't be that bad.

Burnout: The only game issues that have brought up to this point are that the game is “mysogonistic, homophobic, and racist”. Not to say that it is, because there are gays in the game. Along with equal degradation of males and females, and equal degradation of races. But, to say that none of those existed in the time period covered by FATAL, is rather maladjusted. Beyond that if you’re looking for the most extreme of stuff I recommend looking a band called Anal Blast. Much more extreme, in my view, than Cannibal Corpse.

Well, first of all, your game was homophobic at the time (no gays, remember?), it's pretty racist (removing - er, I'm sorry, "minimizing" - all influences from outside Europe), and it's pretty sexist. This last one's easy to prove: you started out with an example of female degradation, the knight and the princess. Give me a similar example involving male degradation. "Similar" meaning that it's presented as an example of something a player might do. Not an item's effect, not a fiendish trait - no actual statistical option. But an example of what could be done by a FATAL player. Show me.

Oh, side note - it's "misogynistic." "Mysogonistic," well - I'm sure Byron could help, I remember "myso" being used in a scientific context - but other than that it's not really a word.

Two, what's maladjusted (aside from FATAL) really shouldn't be for you to judge, but that's not what "maladjusted" means. Maladjusted refers to not adjusting correctly to society, but it's still contextually wrong, so if you were trying to call these two social rejects, you failed.

And no, thanks, I don't want to know shit about Anal Blast. As it is reading about Cannibal Corpse has ruined my day.

We are 4,938 words into this review, so I'll stop there for the moment.

Notice, yet again, that we still haven't gotten into anything material. MacLennan and Sartin are to blame, in large part. But they're not alone in that one.

FATAL: Game Session #3

2009-10-08T00:00:00.000-07:00

So remember: if you actually want to follow along, here you are. It's copyright (c) 2003 Fatal Games and all that, however.

I do believe I'd agreed to start at this time with Zo, but apparently she's off doing something else, so I'll give her a bit before I actually decide to take this on alone. It's tough typing so much text with arthritic fingers like mine, and you can't copy from the PDF.

Plus, if you remember, last time we covered up to page 25.

Oh! That's her! I'm saved!

Hardy-har-har.

What? I mean it!

"The skin of a kobold is rough and cracked. In fact, their skin withstands high temperatures." You would think that if their skin is rough and cracked it's because it doesn't withstand extreme temperatures of any sort.

This entire paragraph has problems.

"The skin color of a kobold is silvery-white, though sometimes tinted slightly blue or green. The skin of a kobold is rough and cracked. In fact, their skin withstands high temperatures." "As such, this race is skilled at metalworking and Mining (see Chap. 8: Skills). Their favorite metal is silver, since it reminds them of their own skin. Kobolds steal silver whenever possible. Their love of silver is the reason that kobolds dig mines."

The inconsistent capitalization is too obvious, but the point is that these sentences are written like a reporter obsessed with punchiness. Every sentence repeats the key word instead of using a pronoun, there's game material in descriptive material (though that is a pet peeve) and there's a couple conjuctions or conjunctional phrases that just plain don't work.

"As their name implies, kobolds are bold." This makes no sense. Why would the name 'kobold' imply boldness? Besides, they're also called "cobolt" (as in, cobalt), "kobalos" (which sounds Greek), and "dasik" (which doesn't even have a 'b' in it).

There's also the fact that kobolds are mainly (though granted, not exclusively) house spirits similar to what the Roman lares might have been. That is, if Roman lares liked to trick the shit out of their host family instead of protecting them.

And enslave them.

To mine silver.

"Kobolds enslave every species or race possible. Children slaves are used to dig narrow mine shafts. Adult slaves are used for heavy labor, which kobolds avoid at all costs."

Fair enough. Gotta get that silver somehow, and hey, I'm all for anything that shuts annoying kids the hell up. But that's just me.

"Kobolds worship their own immoral gods."

Again, as Zo said at the end of the last session: you racist. You cannot have a number of races running around a game world, present them all as choices for the player, and then make moral judgments about them. Whether you consider slavery good or evil is irrelevant. You are describing a playable race. Hence, an objective viewpoint should be used.

"Common male names are Kraeng and Muda. Common female names are Darlicia and Rachmatilla."

As Resident Onomastician of The Constant Philosopher, I call shenanigans! No race can have Darlicia, Rachmatilla and Muda (all Celtic) as names, and then have Kraeng. This is a problem we've covered already, but I suspect we'll keep having to.

Zo?

"An ogre is a large humanoid of low Intelligence, strong bulk, and carnivorous appetite."

First, he capitalizes 'intelligence'. Why? What is the point of that? He's not talking about the official RPG trait you roll for, just a general quality of the species.

Second, "strong bulk"? What other kind of bulk is there? I'll accept fatty bulk, but even then, the assumption is that it's strong. What else would there be? A "weak bulk"? Yeah. Right.

"Easily outwitted by a clever human, ogres are gross and bloodthirsty."

How are these three things related? Further, how is "gross" even a good descriptive term? It's rather a term of opinion, by which I can only conclude that FATAL is quite racist towards ogres.

Don't forget the kobolds. Or how the only racial stereotype that isn't automatically true is for humans.

Oh, and technically, I guess he could mean the German adjective groß - which means "big" - but wouldn't that be redundant? Hall hates redundancy, you've seen it in his author's defense, and if you haven't, you will soon.

"All base ogres have a hump in their backs."

Technically, you cannot have a hump IN your back. You can have a humped back, or a back with a hump, but not a hump IN your back.

"Ogre offspring are abandoned by their parents, so they prefer to live alone."

I would think that a kid abandoned by its parents would actually be quite clingy and obsessive about getting some kind of object to attach emotion to. But alas, I guess I am wrong.

See? FATAL's not only fun, it's educational! Specifically, it teaches you to make giant logic leaps and disproves all you ever knew about history, anatomy, and the English language.

Oh, and lest I forget:

"Language: None, or Cigan if gifted."

This is a huge logic hole. First, unless someone is mute, it is literally impossible to not know a language of any kind. Second, this vastly destroys the playability of the race for no good reason, since without a language, presumably you cannot communicate. Since, y'know, we're being realistic and all.

Remember though, the racist stereotypes. These are mindless brutes!

So's the football player living in my cousin hall and he can at least get a handle on English. What's your point?

"The greatest enjoyment among cliff ogres is competing with each other regarding the accuracy of hurling victims. The favorite type of contest requires 4 victims, dead or alive. The rules to this contest are that the first cliff ogre hurls a victim where desired. The competing cliff ogre must then hurl a victim where desired. Finally, each cliff ogre attempts to Hurl a victim as close to the previous victim of the other as possible. The cliff ogre wins who throws the second victim closest to the other's victim. In the case of a tie, a re-throw must be made. Frustration is never felt between competing cliff ogres; it is pure enjoyment."

Why is Hurl capitalized, firstly? Secondly, why this detailed description about a random cliff ogre game, which adds nothing to gameplay?

If it involved throwing babies, I could understand it, but -

Is it so we can get an idea of how bad they are? How depraved and sick? Is it just so we can see Hall's little fantasy about throwing poor, innocent people down cliffs?

You'll be happy to know that, among cliff ogres, "when the parents are deemed too old, they are eaten by their children." This lack of loyalty is discussed, although it's slightly off that ogres would organize as cooperative family groups if they had no loyalty to even their own parents.

Also, allow me to add that making ogres roll on tables for occupations is just plain racist. No race has had to do it so far, suffering (at the most) a series of "common occupations." This is clear evidence of prejudice against this particular race, and maybe others that we shall encounter in the future.

The third type of ogres, gruagach ogres, are named not after any big hulking fighting machines, but after Scottish brownies. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. Not only did the much-vaunted historical accuracy of this game fail here, but Hall managed to name a big fat race after the kind of people who gave us a chocolate dessert.

Let's go into the picture now. The gruagach ogre looks like a weird, giant, obese werewolf. The thing has bitch-tits (complete with gratuitous nipple texture), and muffin tops a BBW would envy (for reference, muffin tops are those bumps of fat above pant or underwear waistbands, usually around the hips, and BBW are 'big beautiful women', also known as obese pin-ups). Don't forget the hula skirt too, which just barely covers the thing's crotch.

You gotta like this:

"Their hairy skin is dark brown, and they have long, golden hair. Although their hair is naturally black, they are obsessed with dying it blond."

So they have long, golden hair, but at the same time it is black, and so they must dye it blond. To me it's just an odd way of describing things. And why do they want to dye it blond anyway? I sense Hall's Aryan-superiority complex springing up again. Remember the white elves? Yeah.

It doesn't seem like that to me. Why would he consider ogres part of his Aryan-superiority privileged races? They're idiots, they have no working language, and they eat their own parents and throw others over cliffs, which admittedly, did sound like Hall kinda liked the ide - oh.

Oh, and of course, gruagach ogres' sample nickname is "Lazy-Ass."

The next race of ogres is known as kinder-fresser or kinderschrecker. These are German terms - Kinderfresser (which, being historically accurate, would have no hyphen) and Kinderschrecker mean "children-eater" and "children-surpriser" (or "children-ambusher").

"Although a kinder-fresser will eat any human child, their favorite is a moral child."

Why? Does meat that's been put through a strict regimen of kindness and honesty taste better? This doesn't seem very realistic.

Maybe it's the intellectual satisfaction of desecrating morality. Although I suppose ogres don't really know of such a thing.

"The unfortunate child is fooled, lured, strangled and swallowed -- usually without evidence. Human children smaller than 30 pounds are eaten whole; shoes are regurgitated 10% of the time, if applicable."

Okay, let's be honest for a second here with each other. Zo, imagine you're playing FATAL and you pick a kinder-fresser, and then you successfully manage to swallow whole a 29.9999999-pound human child. Aside from the obvious damage to your esophagus and probably most of your digestive tract from having to break down shit like bone, teeth enamel, and cartilage, do you really care if the tyke's shoes come tumbling back up?

Well, I guess some shoes would be uncomfortable to digest. Shoelaces could get tied around intestines, or buckles could make small holes in the stomach. The picture also looks like a pedophile with a beer gut attempting to rape a little girl.

All that you need to know about trolls, other than they're slightly similar to ogres, is that hill trolls get erect and wet when eating brains (they like cerebrospinal fluid too), female subterranean trolls like to experiment sexually (but only with large male anakim, humans, or ogres, except gruagach, since they're fat).

Of course, then comes something like this:

"Their willingness to experiment is due to the ugliness of the male trolls. For this reason, these female trolls are often called trollops."

Fucking FATAL.

It may be just me, but the word "trollop" reminds me of "dollop", which means that the discussion of female trolls' sexuality just brings up the Daisy theme song--"What would you do with a dollop, a dollop, a dollop, what would you do with a dollop, a dollop of Daisy?"

Well, I've always been a big fan of the word trollop. Trust FATAL to go and fuck it up for me.

Apparently, subterranean trolls, who are vicious cannibals and attempt to kill everything, can be warded off by mistletoe. What?

"Subterranean trolls usually worship a god."

Great. Wonderful specifics on that one, though I suppose it's good that for once we're getting choice.

Also, I'd like to note that subterranean trolls are apparently Greek, with names like Aktorion, Kephisophon, Amaxerete and Thrinacia. I realize it's a bit of cultural bias that I'm allowing to seep through here, but I think a good portion of that ancient civilization must be making quite the dust storm over in Athens' long-gone graveyards.

He has a chart for racial hatred.

Yes. Yes, he does.

I was hoping to leave races at that, but of course, there's a section on racial slurs. Will the fun never end?

Of specific note are the Anakim racial slurs:

Human men call females Hourglasses.
Human men call males Raptors.
Human women call females Demon-whores.
Human women call males Skinloaf or Stovepiper (due to their manhood)

There's a missing period at the end of that last one, but even if there was one there . . . do I have to explain why it seems like human women are not only highly sexed, but also petty? Oh, and there's no entries for what anyone else calls them.

A few others:

Dwarves, elves and kobolds call [bugbears] Rugs.

Bugbears call [humans] Poople, not people.
Dwarves and elves call [humans] Corruptians.

Ogre-Gruagach: Hairy-One.

Three of these are stupid, the fourth one sounds plain dumb. It also kind of sounds like everyone in this game world speaks English, but that's not really an issue.

Now on to gender!

"Now that you know the race of your charcter . . ."

You get to pick the gender!

"For example, on average it is obvious that males tend to be physically stronger, taller, and weigh more than females."

Actually, this is not particularly obvious. Women are actually larger because they have more fat (and are proportionally heavier). Further, while males tend to be bigger and stronger, this is also very dependent on environment, and given the right conditions there may be no difference at all. In fact, it is estimated that humans are only about 10-15% sexually dimorphic.

"Random determination is more realistic, since no one gets to choose their gender in reality."

You could argue, actually, that mothers do get to pick the gender of their children (sometimes thanks to genetics and sometimes thanks to psychological factors affecting hormones and so on). Furthermore, gender-picking also occurs after birth, in which many societies preferentially keep and sustain males, and kill females. Besides that, in an RPG game the player is more like God, and God CAN choose gender.

Of course, then it goes on to say that gender being determined randomly is "rare."

"Otherwise, a player should choose their gender based on the following information or personal preference."

What else would they base their choice on?

The massive amount of social discrimination present in the game against females? That'd certainly make me want to play a male character.

"In Book IX of 'Historia Animalium,' Aristotle refers to gender differences and compares animals as well as humans. His comments are deemed relevant to the setting of F.A.T.A.L. due to the prevalence of his opinion throughout the Middle Ages."

The problem with this is that Aristotle's opinions turned out to be just that - opinions - and were discredited. You're going to see this continue to happen. Works and theories that have long been discredited by later research will be presented as part of "historical accuracy," when in reality, it's historical inaccuracy to say these things actually matter in any way.

"According to a prominent philosopher, males tend to be more spirited, savage, simple, and less cunning. Females, on the other hand, tend to be more compassionate than males, more easily moved to tears, at the same time are more jealous, more querulous, and are more apt to scold and to strike. Females are, furthermore, more prone to despondency and less hopeful than males, more void of shame and self-respect, more false of speech, and more deceptive. Females are also more wakeful, shrinking, and difficult to rouse to action. The philosopher notes that males are more courageous, sympathetic, and stand-by to help."

There are seven phrases to describe males, and at least half could be considered positive. Meanwhile, there are thirteen phrases to describe females, of which only two are even vaguely positive.

Hall depicts women as emotional, irrational, scheming whores, and men as good-hearted helpers. Does he really think this is realistic, at all? Does he think this will get him fans? I hope this is not how he sees the world, but alas, my hopes would probably be dashed.

He goes on to say that all of this is "assuming that the above observations are correct." That's a long shot.

In case you were wondering why Zo has the dubious honor of taking this section, the above should make it fairly obvious.

And in the modifiers, females get less intelligence ( -4%, versus males, who get +4%).

"According to the adjustments above, it may seem as though males are superior, though it is important to understand that there are other instances, such as nurturing, that are not apparent in the adjustments and may become evident and valuable during role-playing. The function of altering gender according to the table above is to shift the averages of the sexes to more closely resemble reality."

So what Hall is saying here is that males are generally superior in anything even vaguely relevant (at least to RPG-ing), because it "more closely resemble[s] reality". This is the guy who also refers to The Bell Curve as a valid resource, so I don't expect much, but how did he even think he'd get away with such blatant sexism?

He probably thinks he's superior to women. Hah. That probably also explains his obsession with ... other things that we'll get to later. He's compensating, my friends.

"Most cultures are patriarchal and the prevalent belief regarding gender is that females are inferior to males physically, intellectually, morally, and emotionally."

This is so wrong. There are MANY matriarchal societies, and in many other societies women were considered equal if not superior to men. Besides, if females were really that inferior, would we have many a female ruler in European societies? Would we have so many powerful goddesses controlling their husbands and saving the world? No.

"For example, menstruation may be understood as punishment by the gods."

I've not heard of a single society that considers menstruation to be punishment. Impure, yes. But punishment? No.

"Further, the natural role of women regarding childbirth, and subsequently motherhood, has impacted the societal role of women, such that they are deemed better suited to stay at home, cook, clean, and care for their husband and children."

This is actually a pretty recent (read: Victorian era) development. In most societies women are active participants in food procurement (including farming), and if they are confined to the home, they are often in charge of household management, which is not cooking, cleaning, and caring for the husband and children--it is overseeing purchase of household goods, slaves, financial accounts, punishment of slaves, education of children, and all other activities which are far different from the fifties-housewife ideal of Hall.

The next paragraph is pretty much a repeat of paragraph one, in different words. I'll spare myself the blood pressure rise, and just say he's a sexist who misunderstands history.

"Prior to marriage, maidens are expected to be chaste, though few fulfill this expectation. Once married, a wife is expected to be submissive to her husband, who owns her."

So, aside from the fact that women are whores (again), there's no talk of women's rights in the ancient world - and yes, there were some. Depending on where they lived, women could own property, go to court, and hold certain functions with some religious power. There are, of course, virgin goddesses such as Artemis and Athena, but those aren't included in the game.

Footnote break:

"For instance, the highest measured intelligence is that of a female, though by large numbers females tend to score slightly lower than males in overall intelligence. Shifting the range lower for females prevents the possibility of a female possessing the highest Intelligence, except when considering Persistent Exercise (see Chapter 3: Abilities). As a contrast, males have lower Intuition than females, in which case Persistent Exercise cannot help. A gender difference exists in distributions, such that males have a lower central tendency than females, and thus have wider distributions; the most intuitive male should exceed the most intuitive female. Therefore, if the gender modifiers are accurate for this game, then the [sic] are more biased against males than females."

Right off the bat, we have inconsistent capitalization (which makes it impossible to tell if he means the game statistic, or the abstract idea of intelligence) and, simply, thick language. I'm not sure what the academic equivalent of purple prose is, but it's here. Jargon, perhaps?

Anyway, what I extract here is that males have higher Intuition, and females have technically higher potential in Intelligence, but score lower. This is ass-backwards.

First, it's pretty much proven that women are more intuitive than men: that's where the whole concept of "woman's intuition" comes from (and if it doesn't, it's still the kind of thing Hall would do, such as calling oversexed female trolls "trollops"). Second, as much as I hate to admit this for FATAL's sake, men technically have higher Intelligence potential: in distribution, men tend to score either very high or very low, whereas women have a slightly more stable range. However, all women and all men score across all ranges.

And no, the bonuses aren't, in fact, more biased against males. Male modifiers total up to 26%. Female modifiers are the opposite, at -26%. How, how, how is that biased against males?

Actually, he's saying that males have lower intuition but the bell curve for them is shifted so that the highest male is higher than the highest female.

This makes sense because . . .

I was just correcting your misperception.

Fair enough, but this is still a point against the game. I mean, men get a total of what, 52% (26% vs. -26%) as an advantage over women, and what do women get in return? Stuff that is not "apparent in the adjustments and become evident and valuable during role-playing." Oh, puh-leeeeeese.

The whole idea of using intelligence test scores as a measure of real intelligence is idiotic. There are many reasons why men score higher, none of which require an actual difference in intelligence. I'll accept that Hall doesn't realise how biased those tests are or how self-perception affects test scores (so he would be encouraging lower scores for girls by saying girls get lower scores, but let's not get into the ethics of it). Tests generally test things which boys are encouraged to be good at (and some of those things only recently, mind you, for example, math became more lucrative in the 19th century so it became a boy thing).

Probably helps explain why so many presidents studied the classics in the 20th century. I remember that article lamenting how people weren't taking the national Latin proficiency test as often anymore.

With that said, and because the next section's going to be a doozy, we'll stop there and let you think about it.

May your Aedile always let you choose your race and gender.

FATAL: Review Session #2

2009-10-01T00:00:00.000-07:00

So, three weeks after the first scheduled Review Session, here I am basically slitting my mental wrists again. I guess some people just can't leave well enough alone.

First, before we get to the actual review, I forgot to copy what I found posted above the review.

Below is a true gem. It is a review by two idiots, and the author of F.A.T.A.L., Byron Hall, replied to it. He's the coolest. I snagged this from www.fatalgames.com and have copy/pasted it here. If Fatal Games wants me to take it down, I will, but as long as they don't mind, I want to show this to the world so that all can see the stupidity of conservatives. Ok, here's the review and counter-review all rolled into one.
[Ed. -- I know FATAL red is Byron's color. But since this guy posted in red, thinking that makes him as awesome as Byron, we're going to use the same one. Oh, and www.fatalgames.com is now a games site.]

1. You know, for Burnout saying that using words like "wang" is immature, I can't remember the last time I referred to anything or anyone as "the coolest." I also intend to show how Byron Hall is not, in fact, "the coolest," but that'll happen organically as we continue.
2. Quick shot: It's "OK" or "okay." Capitalize entirely, or don't.
3. I have one big fat problem in this paragraph. See if you can spot it.

No luck?

How about "I want to show this to the world so that all can see the stupidity of conservatives?" Listen, kid, just because they don't like what you do doesn't make them conservative. MacLennan and Sartin don't express any (non-humorous) pro-choice, pro-death penalty, pro-gun, pro-big business, anti-tax (for the rich), anti-big government, anti-civil rights, anti-political correctness positions. Therefore, they are not conservative from this review.

Now, since we've established that one of Byron's supporters is apparently either a minor (I remind you he does not want minors playing FATAL) or a ridiculously immature legal adult (God knows there's a few of those running around), let's go back to the review. Remember: MacLennan is orange juice, Sartin is aquamarine, Burnout is weed green, Byron is FATAL red, and I'm charcoal.

We left off at the title page.

Let's start with the title page.

It's about time.

I actually have to come down on Byron's side here, as I said before. They took half a millennium to get to this point.

Yeah, it's that bad.

Sartin: [a la Duff Man] Oh, yeah! [/Duff Man] "FANTASY ADVENTURE TO ADULT LECHERY" in crappy you-can-see-the-asses-of-the-little-engraved-figures font. Right inside a border made up entirely of random "garbage" characters.

Immature, I suppose, but I didn't see the original page. (If you were reading a month ago, you know the title page I saw. Wasn't much better.)

What does Byron have to say on the subject?

Even the moment I created this logo (I hesitate to call it that) in PhotoShop, I did not want to use it. Currently, a logo is being designed by a professional artist. As it should be known, the game is available free while it is being developed. Much has changed, and much will before I'm ready to unleash it upon the world in full force. At the moment, fatalgames.com is completely unadvertised, for the same reason. By the way, the characters around the edge of the 'logo' actually spell FATAL and other appropriate things. I can't wait to see the final logo!

How many things are wrong with this paragraph? Can you spot a few?

1. It's Photoshop. No CamelCase involved.
2. Expressing hesitation about using a logo he himself created for a product he himself created. Look, there's a pretty simple rule in most businesses that print large volumes of paper. If you're not sure about something, not in the sense of taking a risk but in the sense of you're really not sure if it's worth it, you don't use it. Simple as that.
3. Expressing the sentiment that he wants to "unleash" FATAL "upon the world in full force." That should be made a charges-worthy statement right there.
4. Expressing childish excitement at the end of the paragraph - who the hell cares about a new logo? - after he told us how immature MacLennan and Sartin were.
5. Using quotation marks to imply that this "logo" isn't a real one. You created it, you stuck it on your game. Es ist ein Logo.

While we're on it, if you can queue up "Optimistic", by Radiohead, you'll have a good idea of how the both of us feel right now.

Not a big Radiohead fan, so I'll look up the lyrics. (Honestly, take a look. They're hilarious.)

Burnout: I'm unfamiliar with that song. I prefer to listen to much more musically-complicated bands and artists.

Oh, snap, son. You just got served.

What's interesting here is that Burnout reveals the underlying problem of FATAL - that complexity equals skill, mastery, or goodness. He's allowed to be an asshole about his music taste because complex music is the only good music. Simple music is for morons who criticize FATAL.

I brought up Sojourner Truth's "Ain't I A Woman?" speech before. It's considered one of the greatest speeches ever given (though trust them not to know, since Sojourner Truth was black, and that didn't fit into their research), precisely because of its simplicity. Sojourner didn't try to win followers with complicated rhetoric and appeals to the nation's unity. She was doing it in language everyone listening would understand.

While I'm not going to shout myself hoarse - we have more crap to wade through here on both sides - I'm sure you can find examples in most other media of how complex doesn't always equal good. (And if you do, send 'em in, and I'll add them, with contrib notes, even).

FATAL claims to be "the most difficult, detailed, realistic and historically/mythically accurate role-playing game available."

FATAL lives up to its claim, only the reviewers don't know it. As I refute arguments about the game, I'll demonstrate this.

This is the most damnable lie I have ever seen in my history as an RPG reviewer.

Burnout: I just can't let this go. Show me one game where it is more difficult to achieve goals, level-up, acquire treasure, or just stay alive. Also, I'd like to see a game that gives you a more detailed of what skills can be done on a day-to-day basis as well as adventuring. As far as realistic and historically/mythically accurate, I truly believe that for the period and realm in which the game exists, it is more accurate than anything I have seen.

Well, Byron's mostly right. The game is definitely difficult and detailed. It's 1,003 PDF pages (you'll see them cover this later) chockablock with content - most of which is about how, despite being mythically accurate, Neveria (the setting for FATAL) is pretty much all about sex and violence. Which Fatal Games (but not necessarily Byron himself) consider sensitive issues.

The realism is debatable. We'll get to that eventually, the same way we've been getting to it in the game sessions themselves - again, since this is written a while before it comes out, if we've lasted that much in.

The historical accuracy is bullshit. Pure, unadulterated, grade-A fima tauri.

To Byron, the concept of "historical accuracy" means, at its heart, that anything he used for his research supported the view that the medieval world was obsessed with sex and violence. That rape is equal to prostitution and women deserve it, and that half of all males in the medieval world had participated in a gang rape.

This he got from a book with very, very poor scholarship - 15th century French prostitution does not all medieval prostitution make, but he ignored this.

In no sense is that statement true; as a matter of fact, in every sense of the word, that statement is so false as to provide the golden mean for statements of falsehood. FATAL is difficult only in the sense that peeling your face off a strip at a time is difficult; detailed only in the respects that give the creators an erection; realistic - Jesus, I can't even go into it - historically/mythically accurate only in the sense that its creators occupy the same physical world that these myths originated upon, and about as accurate as banging your ass on the keyboard to write the Gettysburg Address.

If you believe FATAL is not the most difficult game (soon to be) on the market, then at least offer counter-evidence. Which game do you consider to be more difficult? If you believe FATAL is not the most detailed game (soon to be) on the market, then at least offer counter-evidence. Which game do you consider to be more detailed? You get the idea. Darren makes a claim, and then offers no support.

Burnout: Even beyond that, what makes it less difficult? How is it less detailed? Throughout their review you can make note that they never prove anything about the difficulty or detail.

Gotta hand it to the Christmas Colors Duo here - MacLennan and Sartin proved exactly the opposite of what they just said. FATAL is, probably, the most difficult roleplaying game ever made. Of course, to the CCD (see above), difficulty is the only barometer for value.

Well, that and how many times rape, general sex, and sticking swords into people's orifices, sexually or otherwise, are mentioned.

Sartin: Darren is correct, but it should be noted that this is actually a good title page, as it neatly hints at much (though by no means all) of what sucks about this game.

ADULT LECHERY? Perhaps it's nitpicking to point out the redundancy (oooh, oooh! What's next? The fantasy game of "violent combat"? The sci-fi game of "starfaring space travel"? The White Wolf game of "ah fuck it, just gimme the cool powers already"?), but it's a good indicator of the level of thought that went into the whole game. And, of course, it reminds you that this won't be just another Tolkien-clone RPG, but a raping and shitting Tolkien-clone RPG!

Yeah, that didn't get much better later on. You can see our discussion of the new title page - came out on July 4th, if you need help finding it.

Does Jason think before he writes? Adult lechery could easily be different from minor lechery, which I want to avoid at all costs. This game is for adults only, and involves lechery. Likewise, it is possible to have a game for adults only, and that has no sexual content at all. Just the same, I was never comfortable with the title, and see it as the opposite of G.U.R.P.S. in one respect. I consider what GURPS stands for to be well-conceived: Generic Universal Role-Playing System. Unfortunately, the title itself (GURPS) is unattractive, nonsensical when alone, and a failure in marketing and branding. Conversely, FATAL seems an excellent name for the game for many reasons. Compared to other RPG's, the game system is definitely more fatal for a character. The beginning of the other part of the name, Fantasy Adventure, is perfect as far as I'm concerned. I dislike 'To Adult Lechery', mainly because it places a disproportionate degree of attention on sex. However, this is one element that separates it from other games, so I guess it's not so horrible. Still, a better name could be spun. I just wanted to point out that Jason was wrong, 'Adult Lechery' is not redundant.

Byron, sweetie, do you think before you say these things? Or do I have to break 'em down into bite-sized pieces for you?

Does Jason think before he writes? Adult lechery could easily be different from minor lechery, which I want to avoid at all costs. This game is for adults only, and involves lechery.

The fact that you have to point out that your game involves excessive lust in the title, and then cover your ass by saying you only include it "because of its prominence in the past as a significant part of human history," is telling.

Likewise, it is possible to have a game for adults only, and that has no sexual content at all. Just the same, I was never comfortable with the title, and see it as the opposite of G.U.R.P.S. in one respect.

If you were not comfortable with the title, why did you use it? It was your product. You're the first person in the quality control line - in fact, the only one, according to you and yours.

I consider what GURPS stands for to be well-conceived: Generic Universal Role-Playing System. Unfortunately, the title itself (GURPS) is unattractive, nonsensical when alone, and a failure in marketing and branding.

It's such a failure in marketing and branding that it's won awards, been elected into the Origins Hall of Fame, and has a bunch of webcomic artists obsessed with it. GURPS may be nonsensical when alone, as well as unattractive, but it's pretty much a success.

Conversely, FATAL seems an excellent name for the game for many reasons. Compared to other RPG's, the game system is definitely more fatal for a character. The beginning of the other part of the name, Fantasy Adventure, is perfect as far as I'm concerned.

It's "RPGs." It's always been "RPGs." It's never been "RPG's." Non-English. (Yes, my standards are higher than MacLennan's and Sartin's. Yes, I'm a grammar Nazi. I'm also training to be a teacher. Back the fuck off.)

FATAL is a horrible name. You can't really market "Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery" (for obvious reasons) or "From Another Time, Another Land" (sounds too cliché). You also can't expect it to get traction. People talk about GURPS and they know there's just GURPS. There's no Chevy Vampire: The Masquerade. No Dungeons & Dragons brand disposable diapers.

But there are a lot of uses of FATAL that have nothing to do with your game. The ease of memory is outweighed by the frequency of the word.

I dislike 'To Adult Lechery', mainly because it places a disproportionate degree of attention on sex. However, this is one element that separates it from other games, so I guess it's not so horrible. Still, a better name could be spun. I just wanted to point out that Jason was wrong, 'Adult Lechery' is not redundant.

Say it with me now: if you didn't like it, why'd you leave it in? Or are you gonna take credit only for what you did right, such as it is?

It kinda worries me that he had to point out that the existence of, again, excessive lust, is an element that separates his game from others, right after saying that its being in the title puts a disproportionate degree of attention on sex. Obviously, you intended for that attention to be there, or you would've taken the extra minute, or two, or five, or ten, or even seven hours, or a day, necessary to ensure that no one thought in the first place that this "disproportionate degree of attention on sex" did not exist.

DIFFICULT? Oh, yeah. Anyone with the force of will to endure reading all 900+ pages of this homesick abortion of a game (without going insane and making sacrifices to sweet Azathoth for a merciful annihilation of the universe) is no one to be fucked with. And anyone who could do that and actually play by its anal-retentive trip to hell of a rules system (without succumbing to Hall's probable compulsion to inhale Draino by the assloads) would have to be some kind of demigod.

Burnout: Let's just take out the rhetoric out of that and see what happens. "Oh, yeah. Anyone with the force of will to endure reading all 900+ pages of this...game...is no one to be fucked with. And anyone who could do that and actually play by its...rules system...would have to be some kind of demigod." I personally see this as a compliment. Even though I don't consider myself a demigod, I do consider myself someone not to be fucked with. So thanks Sartin.

I'm sorry, did you or did you not just say you were taking the rhetoric out of that statement? What, there wasn't enough space left for your own?

Burnout, my advice to you (which you won't follow because, well, you smoke pot, and I've never met a pot smoker who listens to other people) is not to be a little prick. You know how Byron's talking about being "professional" and all? That includes not doing the same exact shit every movie commercial does.

Roger Ebert: "It's incredible how bad this movie is!"

Movie commercial: ". . . incredible . . . !" - Roger Ebert

What you just did is as dishonest as what you accuse McLennan and Sartin of doing. So don't talk about your supposed superiority. You don't have any.

And yes, it's saying difficult like it's a good thing.

But hey, ain't that ALWAYS the eternal struggle of gaming? "Play a difficult game and get massive headaches because it's needlessly complicated and PC-killing-because-I-accidentally-dropped-my-rusty-dagger-and-impaled-my-favorite-intestinal-tract" versus "Go with something that won't make me roll five times on the Random Shit Discoloration Table every time I cast Light My Finger and thus spend more time actually doing things"?

Question mark goes inside the quotation marks.

FATAL has been played in a comparison with AD&D 2e, and it does not generally require more die rolls (except, for example, in the case of Crucial Damage), nor does it take longer to do anything.

If it requires more die rolls, it requires more die rolls. Period. (He included a "generally," but I'm pointing out how he was trying to cover his ass.)

I would like to know who he play-tested this with, though. Anyone who helped in the creation of the game is right out: they would know at least part of the mechanics. Furthermore, since he likes to accuse people of poor scholarship, I'm going to be typically overblown here and say that he should've timed it, since he had the foresight to know that people would compare how long it took to do shit in one game versus in the other.

Oh, and it's "in comparison."

My question to Jason is: have you played the game or merely thumbed through it? Whether you choose to show respect or not, you're showing incompetence by reviewing a product without play-testing it.

Aw, how sweet. It thinks it deserves respect.

Though it's right - if MacLennan and Sartin failed to playtest the game, they're doing nothing more than reaping what they sowed here - I would remind people that it, Byron Hall, is what unleashed FATAL upon the world, and not even "in full force."

Yeah. Bet you switched sides there real fast.

Burnout: Also, it's not needlessly PC killing. It's realistically PC killing. If you drop a dagger you're not going to puncture an intestinal tract. But, if you get stabbed two or three times with that rusty dagger you will have a little less than 50-50 chance of survival. Seems better than DnD where you can get slashed by a dragon, and if high enough level, probably survive.

Well, first, it's "needless" and "realistic." "PC killing" includes a gerund. That's a verb being used as a noun. In other words, modified by adjectives. Professionalism for FATAL players (I still need to come up with a better name for these people) doesn't include grammar, despite the fact that it's an important part of correct expression. Oh, and no comma after "but." Move it to after "drop a dagger."

Also, it's D&D.

Lastly, while hit points in D&D have always been a problematic matter, they're usually defined as not only the character's actual toughness but also their "ability to avoid damage," whatever that means. It's vague, and mostly useless, but it works as a game mechanic because most players don't want to get killed by a dragon on the first turn if they're high-level enough to challenge it.

REALISTIC AND HISTORICALLY/MYTHICALLY ACCURATE? Oh, I bet.

Player 1: R0XX0R! This is the best system for emulating the myths of Heracles I've ever seen! And it's fucking sweet how all the gods, monsters, and heroes can't do anything that wouldn't be possible in real life!

FATAL does not specialize in ancient Greek mythology, although elements of it have been included or influential. Faulty criticism is worthless when exposed, and discreidts only the critic thereafter, not FATAL or myself. Does Jason understand that?

"Discredits."

What Byron dear calls "included or influential," I call "plagiarized." We may never know, since Neveria (the companion volume) doesn't seem available to the general public, but he basically smushed together deities from Greek, Arabian, Hebrew, Roman, Norse, and angelic mythology (the ones I saw - there may be more).

Of course, Byron's own rhetoric shines here. He basically ignores anything that's obviously humorous, again, because if he didn't, his defense of his game would across as what it is: a petulant attempt to rile up his supporters.

A later addition would be this: it seems he added the demons from the Clavicula Salomonis. Except that I just noted he used Arabian and Hebrew mythology as one of his grounds, and now added a book written by Christians about demons based precisely on those mythologies (also including Persian, what was left of Sumerian, and so on). So European is Neveria that about half of its sources are Middle Eastern. Amazing. Vraiment amazing.

Player 2: Hell, yeah. When I was trying to get past Cerberus, he wasn't any tougher than a pit bull with two extra rubber heads! And later, when I was masturbating on the temple altar and I angered the gods, they didn't do anything but just Not Appear. Dude, you can't HANDLE the realism!

Burnout: Actually, I'm quite sure Cerberus would be much more difficult in FATAL due to the size factor causing more or less damage, depending on larger or smaller. More than likely if you got bit by Cerberus in FATAL he would simply tear you in two. I definitely wouldn't try unless I was using trebuchets from a great distance.

More willful ignorance. Whoop-dee-derpity-do.

Player 1: W00T! If this were any more realistic, you'd be able to TASTE the penis length!

Player 2: Testify! Lots of people in history had penises, so it's ultra realistic and historically accurate to put in rules about that!

Player 1: Man, I could cream myself just thinking about this! I can't WAIT to see if it has rules for hut building, grass growing, nose picking, and the spread of Christianity, since people experienced those during history, too!

I'll admit it'd be hilarious to play the spread of Christianity as a roleplaying event. We can start with Jesus Christ's +35 modifier to all Heal rolls. (Yes, I was born Catholic. No, I'm not Christian at the moment. Back the fuck off.)

It is important to note that the spread of Christianity has been removed from FATAL. This game is the most historically/mythically accurate, given its premises. For example, it should be obvious that it is accurate to medieval Europe, however it is noted on the first page that one exception is that gods are assumed to exist. Therefore, the game assumes that pantheons were not replaced by Christianity, as they were in Europe. Just the same, I am thankful Jason showed his oversight to me. I will make it more clear so that others are not so easily confused.

I wonder if this kid rubs elbows with the intelligent design crowd. Of course, that would, first of all, not make him a self-respecting scientist - oh snap - but he uses the same tactic of hiding behind the bushes of academia. "Given its premises" is deceptive. He really means "after having removed anything with which I don't agree." Anything he doesn't agree with is, as we shall see, anything that's from other races or continents, anything that gives women any kind of freedom or control over their lives, and anything that doesn't involve sex. A lot.

So, yeah.

Okay, I gave the subtitle more attention than it deserved. Let's just say that if Hall set out to write ONE FUCKING LINE that instantly screams that the ensuing RPG will be very nearly as cool as getting diagnosed with cancer and Necrotizing Fasciitis bacteria on the same day, he succeeded brilliantly.

And for the fun part, the FATAL Games logo is "Where the dice never lie." I would suggest that the owners of FATAL Games must have dice that come up "THIS GAME SUCKS, BEAVIS" no matter how they are thrown, or we must chalk this up as yet another falsehood.

Sartin: Yeah, I really like that logo, too. It was nice of the FATALites to point out that when you play games from other companies, your dice may lie to you. Ha, I knew it! All those times I was playing D&D or SenZar, and that d20 would show a 3 or some shit when I knew I rolled a 20. Thanks, FATAL, for showing me the way!

Watch the counterattack.

Jason made a logical mistake in his assumption: The subtitle "Where the Dice Never Lie" does not necessarily imply that dice from other companies lie. In fact, the subtitle serves a useful purpose, and has a great history. The phrase, "the dice never lie" was coined by Jim Hausler, a good friend and contributor. Many years ago, we were playing AD&D 2e, and whenever die-rolls were to his advantage, he bellowed "the dice never lie!" At any rate, Fatal Games can be confused with, say, computer games. By having 'dice' in the subtitle, it makes it clear that it is for dice games.

This is a great history? Byron, sweetie, if this passes for a "great history" in your life, you were a sheltered kid.

I suppose Sartin did in fact screw up his logic - but then you've committed logical fallacies before, as I demonstrated, so why's it such a big deal when he does it? Oh, that's right: he doesn't play FATAL.

Furthermore, it's a stupid phrase, with a stupider history, and if anyone confused Fatal Games with any computer game company, the fact that your game at this point was a free PDF with no obvious video game content would've told them, unless they were from Deliverance: The Home Game. I suppose that is the kind of people who'd play your game anyway.

We're a little over 4,000 words into this one, so let's go a little bit further.

No, wait. This game still proves once and for all that Darwin was an ass-grabbing fool.

While I don't agree, I know that Darwin's corpse started turning over at 100,000 rpm the moment Byron typed:

Darwin was a great man.

Yes. Yes, he was.

He's also why we evolutionists (and yeah, I'm proud to have that title on me) have to consider you a higher lifeform than the average rhesus monkey. No one's perfect.

Oh, and did I forget to mention that it's nine hundred pages long?

This is why I summoned help from Jason Sartin, people.

Funny, I've introduced many to the game, and very few were overwhelmed. Some people are more capable than others.

Byron, sweetie, since you're supposedly so professional, I would suggest you stop making personal attacks on them. Otherwise you're really not doing much better, however much you try to hide the fact that you're using the same tactics they are.

I summoned help from Zo to review the game for one main reason: it's now 1,003 pages on the PDF. While I agree that it's probably not that overwhelming - considering how much of it is appendices and tables - as Sartin said, "friends don't let friends review FATAL alone." It's impossible to go through that entire game with an actual, critical eye - the kind Byron and Burnout don't want looking at it - in one sitting.

Plus, it's a lot funnier when people double-team it.

Sartin: Yeah, thanks. Now watch, by the end, I'll probably have to summon someone else to help me. We'll have Justin Bacon or Scott Lynch or Elissa Carey or some other poor bastard down here to write the closing paragraph and talk me out of climbing a tower and shooting random basement-dwelling losers.

Mmmmmm...killing potential FATALites...

This blog (The Constant Philosopher) includes violence and references to violence. Menzies, author of this blog except where otherwise indicated, considers violence to be a sensitive issue, and only includes it because of its prominence in the present as a significant part of the reaction of any sane brain to reading FATAL.

See? I didn't need a corporate outfit "representing me."

There is a difference between games and people. Jason seems unable to make that distinction. Why so personal?

Well, I could say he warned you. Which he did.

I could add that since you've always said, and insisted, that you are the sole author of this game, you are the only person at whose feet the blame can be laid for any flaws. You, of course, want to cover your ass by saying you consider things sensitive issues, and that some things you disliked but did them anyway - but those are pretty weak excuses.

Either way, the reason Sartin is allowed to be personal is that the game is essentially you. You created the work, you refused to give anything greater than contributing credit to anyone else, blah, blah, blah. You put shit you supposedly "disagreed" with in it to make it more "realistic" and "historically accurate."

Of course, there's also the telling fact that the historical accuracy you so prize makes this game fun for you, and you want other people to enjoy it.

With that, we've reached 4,914 words, and since I'd rather not go over, I'll stop here for the moment.

Notice we haven't even gotten into anything actually material to the game - not even character creation. I hope we'll make it there next time, but knowing how difficult it is to wade through all this crap here, that may or may not be possible. I think we'll try for one Review Session every three weeks - that is, game session, game session, review session - while we can. If Zo loses her mind, we'll have to see. If I lose my mind, well, you won't have to care.

Until then. May you get 17 - 50 on all your Vaginal Circumference Potential rolls.

FATAL: Game Session #2

2009-09-25T00:00:00.000-07:00

Hi, again.

So after our last marvelous review session, in which we covered all of seven pages of FATAL, Zo and Menzies return to bring you the latest in puerile humor, rape-obsessed tabletop roleplaying, and bad history writing.

Menzies (that would be me) still hosts FATAL here, and would like to remind you that all the comment is copyright (c) 2003 Fatal Games, and blah, blah, corporate bullshit, blah.

We start off this time with Chapter 1: Race and Gender (page 9, for those of you misguided souls following along). The chapter introduction doesn't have anything too ridiculous, though I do have to question why you would ever want the Aedile to determine your race randomly. I mean, the whole point of creating a character is what you want to do - seems a little dictatorial to have the Aedile do that instead. But that's minor.

Zo's got something, so we'll cut to her now.

Let's talk about the footnotes.

Hoo boy.

Footnote one says:

"The races for players have been selected strictly from European mythology and folklore. Other criteria include that they must be bipedal, mortal, smaller than giants, and have no special abilities such as invisible gnomes."

First off, this is a little racist. Why MUST they be bipedal? Why MUST they be smaller than giants? What exactly constitutes a giant anyway? There are some pretty tall races in this game.
But really, one thing bothers me more than anything.

Invisible gnomes. I mean, what? WHAT? I never knew that invisible gnomes were an ability.

Footnote two says:

"Though sex usually refers to biological differences and gender usually refers to environmental differences, gender is chosen for this chapter because sex may be confused with sexual acts."

Only Hall could confuse the word 'sex' with sexual acts, especially when 'sex' is followed by 'male' or 'female'. Unlike Hall, most normal people can tell the difference between sex-the-act and sex-the-biological-characteristic.

Great. Just great. We're not even one page into the review and already we've broken the personal attacks rule. Fucking FATAL.

Page 10:

"Race may seem an inappropriate term because humans and trolls are not merely different races, but different species. However, various races of trolls exist, and so it is the more specific term."

This is just me being picky, but if there are various races of trolls, isn't it actually more specific to refer to species, and then races within species? No?

"For example, on average it is obvious that humans are physically stronger, taller, and weigh more than kobolds."

Yes, clearly obvious. We have tons of daily experience with kobolds reminding us that they are weaker, shorter, and lighter.

We continue down and find just what I was looking for - sketches of what I assume are representative members of each race, naked. I like how the three females on display are the human, white dwarf, and dominatrix-PVC-suit-dark elf. Everyone else is male, and (thank God) flaccid.

I'm also comfortable enough with my sexuality to say that I further noted how the anakim male has a comparatively gigantic member to everyone else, and the two males who'd probably have bigger ones - the ogre and troll - either have it blocked (ogre) or apparently the artist forgot to draw it (troll).

Don't forget that they all seem to be circumcised.

Except maybe for the black dwarf.

Thanks, beautiful mental image, Zo.

Again, roleplaying criticism:

"A character may deviate from the racial notes with the Aedile's permission, though this must be done with caution; characters should comply with the following descriptions in the majority of cases or observable instances . . . However, the further the character deviates from the general nature of the race, the more caution must be observed."

So basically, the game that supposedly lets you do whatever you want is already telling you, in the first chapter of character creation, how to roleplay. I'll probably keep harping on this particular point - it's a bit of a contradiction in terms to advertise your game as giving you a lot of choice, letting you do as you wish, only for the game text to tell you how to play your character.

"If the Aedile is inexperienced with F.A.T.A.L., then the game will be easiest if all players role-play human characters. Indeed, this is also the best combination for inexperienced players. However, even if the Aedile is experienced, caution should be heeded regarding the mixture of races among the players' characters. Racial diversity is likely to cause problems, such as threatening group cohesion, if role-played properly."

Even if there were no juvenile humor, or penis clones, or mention of cunt-pipes, in all of this RPG, I think it would continue to be a bad one for this main reason. It's telling you how to roleplay. Let me repeat that: it is telling you, the player, how to do something that you're supposed to make up yourself.

I suppose Hall's players love to be controlled. (No, not in that way. There are personal attacks and there's shit into which I will not go.)

"When possible, the information is accurate historically or mythically. However, much information has been invented so that an equal amount of information or statistics could be presented for all races."

I think this disclaimer should have gone at the beginning of the guide, not in this small subsection. I doubt that all Hall invented were heights, and, well, other less relevant bodily measurements.

I'm sure the vaginal circumference potential of female elves is noted at least once in Beowulf.

"Names: Names have been compiled from historical sources and are available in Appendix 7: Names. Names vary by race. The names of each fantasy race have been based on actual names from history."

Well, which is it? Compiled from historical sources or based on them?

As onomastics is one of my big hobbies - for example, Byron is of Old English origin and means "at the byres or barn" - I'll cover the names as they come along. I do hope they won't be too bad.

First up among the races are the anakim, half-human, half-demon crosses. Zo?

"Ancient terms for anakim are the annunaki, enim, nephilim, zuzim, and zamzumin."

Well, let's go over it one by one.

Anakim and Nephilim are, in fact, the children of women and angels. Good. I'll even accept Zuzim and Zamzumin, though this is actually spelt Zamzummin, and these last two are considered to be giants (although I thought Hall said no giants).

Enim is *not* a word, though I suppose Hall was attempting to reference the term Emite, which is equivalent to Zuzim, Zamzummin, etc.

The big mistake though, is with the Annunaki, who are actually gods and are the children of gods.

"Most anakim are the result of an incubus or succubus mating with a human. These anakim are more commonly called cambion. Oftentimes, cambion children show no signs of life until they are 7 years of age."

So they are dead until they turn seven, and then magically come alive? This makes no sense.

Though the Wiki seems to agree that cambions show no "signs of life" (pulse and breath) until they are seven, it does say that there is "no sign of life outside of being alive", which I assume means there is movement, something Hall did not specify.

"Also, they are likely to live much longer, provided they do not meet a premature death."

No shit, Sherlock.

"Anakim usually speak Sapien, and if they have both good Language ability and the luxury of education, most aspire to learn Underworld."

Sapien and Underworld are languages. Enough said.

I should point out that though anakim are "the result of an incubus or succubus mating with a human," there's never any reference to a human father - it's always a human mother who has these, apparently. (Wikipedia reveals that this is because succubi mate with humans to get their sperm, which they then pass on to an incubus, which he then uses to impregnate a human female. He did kind of miss explaining this, though.) Plus they get piety points despite often being "foreign to notions of worship" (which could mean deism, atheism, agnosticism, never having had religious education, or anything in between depending on what you define as "worship").

But now we turn to the great part of anakim: the fiendish traits chart. Of course, you don't even know how many of these you will get - first you roll 1d10 to figure that part out. I like spontaneity and randomness as much as the next guy, but if a game boasts that I can do whatever I want with it, by God, I will do what I want, not what I have to roll three or four dice to determine.

What starts us off?

"01: The anakim has absolute odds of reproduction. If male, then the anakim will impregnate any female with whom he copulates. If female, then the anakim will become pregnant by any male with whom she copulates."

Nothing particularly puerile, so no reason to harp on it. Let's continue.

"03: The anakim may instill bestial lust into any member of the opposite sex, within visual range. The foe must pass a Drive check at TH 20 or sexually force themselves upon the anakim immediately, regardless of location. This trait may be only used once per day and only in 1-on-1 situations."

Ooh-kay.

"04 The anakim is repelled by holy ground."

Pretty standard, I'd say, right?

"06 The anakim is canibalistic, and eating vegetables will induce vomiting."

Well, okay. Odd, but I suppose it's plausible.

"08 The anakim causes babies to scream when present. If the anakim touches a screaming baby, then the baby is 75% likely to urinate, 50% likely to defecate, and 25% likely to vomit. Thereafter the anakim may touch the child without such an occurrence for 1 day."

Realistically, how many people will be playing babies? Seriously? How is a baby's reaction even going to pop up in gameplay? How is it even relevant whether the kid wets himself or vomits? Why is Hall even thinking about this?

"10 The anakim has bloodlust, craving the act of murder 1d4 times per week. If the anakim does not murder the determined number of creatures per week, then the anakim begins foaming at the mouth, experiences an increased heart rate, an increase of 2d10 Strength and Drive, and a decrease of 2d10 Hand-Eye Coordination and Agility until the requisite number of creatures are murdered."

This is a little creepy and, I would assume, extremely detrimental when playing. Will the anakim go on a rampage and kill his groupmates? Yeah.

"14 The anakim is addicted to vaginal or penile carrion. Once per week, the anakim has the urge to kill the first member of the opposite sex in sight and feed on the previously stated remains. The anakim may resist this urge by passing a Drive check at TH 22."

Vaginal or penile carrion? I have never heard these terms before and I hope I never do again. I seriously do not want to know what kind of mind it takes to even come up with this.

"24: The anakim causes humans within 1 foot to desire anal sex according to their sexuality."

Amazing. So even if you play a female character and your Debauchery roll (we'll get there later) is from zero to five, having an anakim near you instantly makes you want to bend over, if you catch my drift. (Or a male character whose Debauchery score is zero or one.) I suppose the dice do lie after all, since even the most virginal characters will start wanting to be "dignified up the ass," as Philip Seymour Hoffman's Gust Avrakotos might put it, when one of these gets within range.

"25: The anakim has blood for sexual fluid, causing a penalty of 1d10 to the Sexual Adeptness Skill. If male, then the anakim ejaculates blood. If female, then blood is the lubricating vaginal fluid all month long."

Let me leave this one with one big "What the fuck?"

By the way, blood is NEVER the lubricating vaginal fluid.

"40: The anakim is accompanied by the odor of sex, which extends 1d6 feet."

Well, I'd actually like to know what sex smells like. According to modern commercials, Axe or Lynx is your best bet; according to one of my cousins, those are made from his genes. (Yeah, disturbing. No, I didn't ask.)

"72: The anakim may fart as loud as thunder. All creatures within a 10-feet radius of this anakim, except the anakim, automatically take 1d4 sonic damage and are stunned for 1 round, which can be avoided by passing a Drive check at TH 17. This can be utilized only once per week."

You know, I've always wanted to roleplay a character who can match the loudest fart on record - 120 decibels, I believe - but I never thought it would be possible.

"95: Non-magical weapons cannot harm the anakim. Consult with the Aedile."

No, no, zweimal no, hundertmal no, tausendmal no, x-mal no. You are asking a player to create a character. There should be no need, once the player sits down to create the character, to tell the Aedile that there may be an issue here because the anakim will have a huge advantage over everyone else right from the very beginning. Hall did admit that it's very hard to get money in this game, so I assume magical weapons must be hard as hell to come by, and thus an anakim character who rolls 95 for a trait is automatically spared a lot of bother.

This is poor game writing and nothing more.

So now we come to the bugbear, which, as we indubitably needed to know, is bugbears in the plural.

We're told, first of all, that they enjoy eating human children because "adults contain more gristle and do not taste as well." Ignoring the attempt to sound erudite - "taste as good" would've done the job and be clearer as well - this probably means that bugbears have huge problems with heart disease, since human children would be a pretty nice source of fatty meat.

Here's the real gem though:

"The most renowned characteristic of bugbears is that they annoy all other races. Though bugbears do not annoy each other, all other races are annoyed. Bugbears have annoying behavioral habits, speech patterns, societal customs, etc. A bugbear is 20% likely to have either (01-10) Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (see Chapter 5: Mind) or (11-20) Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder."

We can start by affirming that Byron Hall is obviously no fan of Monk, and that he does not realize that "renowned" is not a neutral word. It is a positive word, meant to indicate deserved fame. So apparently, people like bugbears because they annoy them. The logic is impressive - Mr. Spock would be fascinated. Captain.

Furthermore, I have to question the point of making a race whose entire, well, gimmick is being annoying. It's racist, for one - I've met Hispanics and blacks who are annoying, but I wouldn't say they have "annoying behavioral habits" as a whole. Nor can I really reconcile OCD with, well, baby-eating. It seems to me it would be difficult to maintain both at the same time, though Mimi Bobeck of The Drew Carey Show would disagree.

Maybe they boil the babies first?

I'm also digging how bugbears have a -50 hit to their Morality. We'll discuss this Aristotelian moral system later (much later apparently) but it seems being annoying (and eating human kids, but that's a matter of opinion) is somehow immoral.

"If bugbears raid a human community, then victorious bugbears will often rape human women before devouring the children. Human women who are raped by bugbears may become pregnant, though the fetus aborts prior to birth. In fact, 50% of human women who are raped by a bugbear die due to ripped uteral lining."

One: It's uterine lining, not uteral lining.

Two: There are only two possible reasons why 50% of human women who are raped by a bugbear would die due to ripped uterine lining. Either bugbears are way too violent and 'big' for my psychological comfort, or Hall doesn't understand the difference between natural and artificial abortion. Natural abortions, also (and more generally) called miscarriages, do NOT rip the uterine lining. Artificial abortions can and do, because of the surgical instruments used.

"A male bugbear has a hairless manhood, except for the glans or head, which has hair that is 1" long and grows away from the spout-hole. A female bugbear has a hairy vagina."

This is so bizarre. And unnecessary. And W-T-F.

Mind you, this is also (unless I missed one) the first example of what I'll call a "sex kenning." Partly because it sounds like "sex kitten." Kennings are, of course, the word combinations Old English had as part of its genitive: "battle-brand" for "sword," for example. German still has them - Grundgesetz, "basic law," is the German constitution. FATAL, being FATAL, has a number of kennings that deal with specific parts of the human anatomy. You'll be seeing some more of these, but I think spout-hole may have the honor of being the first one.

"Names: Common male first names include Lljotbjaltr and Radketill. Common female last names include Ismaer and Sigrheidr. Common last names for a bugbear include Arnlidi and Botgeirr."

Arnlidi and Ismaer are real, Botgeirr seems to be based on Bottger, which is a real last name. However, there is no fucking way in Hell the same culture uses "Sigrheidr," "Arnlidi," and "Lljotbjaltr."

The only possible example I can think of for a basis is that Byron Hall considers Slovenians as annoying as he considers Vikings.

Oh, and did I mention the bugbear, historically, is no more than a giant bear in medieval England?

"All dwarves have the ability to shape-shift. However, dwarves may only shape-shift into the following creatures: butterfly, chipmunk, and owl."

What the hell?

Dwarves live underground.
They're short and stocky craftsmen.

Why the hell do they turn into butterflies, CHIPMUNKS, and owls? WHY?

Black dwarves have as their main feature that they "thwart humans." No, really. That's their first sentence:

"Black dwarves thwart humans."

Ooh-kay. Later . . .

"By thwarting humans for so many generations, black dwarves have become experts in road-traps."

Right.

Oh, and black dwarves may be "a result of the sorcerous combination of humans and maggots."

Yeah, there's a reason I neglected to mention that.

Their names - Gunterus and Heidolfus for males, Alberadis and Constantia for women - seem Dutch in origin, but I can't confirm or deny. The rest of the dwarves have similar stuff.

Brown dwarves are solitary creatures, yet somehow they procreate. I assume this is where Hall's "use logic" defense comes in.

White dwarves are jolly.

OK, boring race, I admit it. They can't all be winners.

Elves have a little better shapeshifting arsenal - cat, fox, dog or rabbit. At least these make better sense - lithe and agile elves could easily become lithe and agile foxes and lithe and agile cats - but out of those I don't think many dogs and cats live in the forest. (Any zoologists out there, here's your chance to call me an idiot.)

I also have to note that below the Duration table, the text states that "This is the longest that each elf may have shapeshifted per day or period of 24 hours." The one problem is that the Duration table itself goes up to 1d10 months. Whoopsie.

Also, cats are Egyptian.

Amazing. 23 pages into the game and we have our first big fat fucking historical inaccuracy. I suspect we'll be finding more of them as we go, or if Hall finds out we're doing this, he may just decide to show up and tell us what book to read. I await that eagerly.

"Dark elves are immoral and ugly."

I'm beginning to think every race in FATAL can be expressed in one easy sentence involving the race and a predicate adjective or two.

Anakim are half-demons.
Bugbears are annoying.
Black dwarves thwart humans. (Well, fairly simple still.)
Brown dwarves are solitary.
White dwarves are jolly.
Dark elves are immoral and ugly.

"Nevertheless, they are incredibly fertile and are always trying to mate. Few children are born."

Seeing as how my college studies involve literally no course work in anatomy or physiology, as of the moment, I can't definitively answer this. It doesn't make intuitive sense - fertility means fecund or fruitful, so how could someone who is incredibly fertile bear few children? Either the scientific definition of fertility is way more specific than it should be, or I'm starting to lose too many brain cells from reading FATAL.

However, Zo being an anthropology major who's got her shit together, I can throw it to her for a quick review.

This makes no sense. Fertility is defined as the ability to produce offspring. Incredible fertility means an incredible ability to produce offspring, as in, to quote the dictionary, "the amazing fertility of rabbits." So why the hell would few children be born? If the children miscarry, you are not incredibly fertile.

My only guess is that they are "trying to mate" but not successfully mating. That's kind of hard to believe though. But hey, it's FATAL.

"Because dark elves are naturally unattractive and lecherous, they desire to magically enhance their beauty in order to seduce those who would ordinarily reject them."

Which is basically everyone, I would assume, since as I said before, dark elves look like they're wearing PVC clothing. You know, like the boots Till Lindemann wears in that one Rammstein video. (Here - don't watch if you're not comfortable with lots of naked and half-naked male bodies.)

"Above all, light elves enjoy playing harmless pranks on others. For instance, shoelaces may be untied."

Nice use of the passive voice.

"If the female percieves [sic] herself to be slighted in any way, she will punish him harshly by playing mischievous tricks."

Amputations? Yes. Gouged eyeballs? Yes. Fire and brimstone? Totally.

Shoelaces untied? Not so much.

I before e, except after c, bitches.

Zo forgot to mention why she may feel slighted - because:

"Sometimes, humans kidnap beautiful light elven maidens and attempt to force marriage."

So apparently, in Neveria, a light elven maiden may or may not perceive herself as slighted because she was kidnapped, forced away from her home where she'd been untying everyone's shoelaces, to get married to some human (probably named John, or Hall, or something) who'll probably leave her anyway because she doesn't produce children. (That's the last line of that paragraph.)

I suppose the "attempt" is in there because "mischievous tricks" may eventually wear him down to the point where he decides not to attempt to force marriage. But only - only - if she perceives herself to be slighted.

Fucking FATAL.

Also:

"Light elves tend to be attractive; however, this race has no pubic hair. The appearance of light elves is whiter than the sun."

So Hall thinks being "all-natural" down there is sexy. So much more than I need to know. In fact, so much more I can't even begin to describe the urge I have right now to jam my brain with a Q-Tip until I knock something loose.

*gouges brain out*

Oh, and don't forget the subtle nod to Neo-Nazi white supremacists.

Humans! Finally!

Oh, will ya look at that. Only ones with a picture. Pretty much stereotypical RPG humans, though - balanced everywhere, no modifiers, no bonus skills, no nothing. It does seem surprising to me that despite being identified as "more adaptable," humans don't have anything going for them in the area of adaptation. No learning skills faster or anything.

"Disposition Modifiers: No modifiers."

"Temperament Modifiers: No modifiers."

So, basically, every single other race has a racial temperament, except for humans? And if other races consider humans to be corrupt, greedy, and power-hungry, why is there no disposition or temperament basis to that? If the stereotypes about the other races are right, why not those about humans? All I can say is: you racist.

Hall can claim to be mythically accurate all he wants. It's pretty well-documented that European mythology had a big problem with the color spectrum: white was always good, black was always bad. I can't exactly go in-depth to analyze why he chose to remove all outside influences on Europe, since I don't know him, but I have a pretty few good guesses in mind.

However, this reveals that it's not just mythology with the problem. Obviously humans are supposed to be the center of Neveria's world, which is fine - typical RPG convention - but they're also the only ones with no "racial norm" from which to deviate. You never have to play against type because there is none.

Obviously, in a game where the book tells you not just how to play but how you have to play, this is a great advantage.

Oh, and is it just me or do the human woman's breasts look like they had some help from a sorcerer?

That's it for today. My eyes bleed from the pain of the FATAL PDF. Alas, until next time, dearies.

On the good side, we managed 18 pages - which tells you how much shit there was in the first 7 compared to the rest - but on the bad side, we're so not out of the woods it's not even funny. I'd hoped to do 25 pages with each session, but as you've seen, it's kind of impossible. I've begun keeping these to approximately 4,000 words instead. (Review sessions, such as last week's, have 5,000 since they show up a lot less regularly.)

Suffice it to say that I won't be surprised to reach the first anniversary of FATAL Fridays. (I refuse to use the word "celebrate" there.) Though, if there is a God, by then Zo will have dropped out and my withered husk will be working alone.

Goodbye now. May all your anakim characters roll 72 and 95 on the Fiendish Traits chart. (Yes, in order of preference.)

FATAL: Review Session #1

2009-09-18T00:00:00.000-07:00

If you've been following FATAL Fridays, you may or may not know that there is a review of FATAL posted here. You may or may not also know that there is an author's defense of FATAL, posted here. (Warning: the colors in both will hurt your eyes.)

I agreed to review the game itself - that is, the 1,003-page PDF - with a friend, as you also may know (since presumably the first post came out this time last week). I've also chosen to take upon my shoulders, and my shoulders alone, the duty of being the fifth person in this particular hellish chain.

Since Blogger is a little restrictive on color use, I'm going to be very careful. I normally write in charcoal, so I'll keep that color. The two original reviewers, (Darren) MacLennan and (Jason) Sartin, will be in orange juice and aquamarine respectively. Burnout, one of the two defenders, will be in weed green. (There's a reason.) Finally, Byron Hall, putting the "author" in the "author's defense," gets the honor of retaining his color - FATAL red - so I can make fun of how stupid it is to associate your game with a single color.

The last two warnings: these posts are to be considered extremely NSFW. Again, not safe for work - there's profanity and genital references throughout the review and the defense (fitting for the game, unfortunately). Furthermore, expect them to be long as Hell is deep.

Without further ado, let us begin.

Perhaps the most negative review ever written, RPG.net posted a review of F.A.T.A.L. on 4/10/3 and removed it on 4/13/3 from the following page:
[Ed. -- Link removed, as it's no longer there, and I linked you to it.]

So we're literally one sentence into the review and there's already a dangling modifier. Purely out of curiosity, why is it "3" and not "03?" Does anyone else use this? It's an interesting little non-FATAL-related tidbit here.

Although it is technically not a review, but mostly an attack against me, Byron Hall, I will demonstrate the fallacies of the authors, Darren MacLennan and Jason Sartin. Obviously, they hate F.A.T.A.L. and anyone involved with the game. Their hatred can be only the result of fear.

No, their hatred is the result of anger, which is the result of fear. Get your Dark Side steps right.

They are fearful because they know it will be published. They are fearful because the material in the game is supported, and is dissimilar to anything that attracts them.

Byron, sweetie, the word is afraid. When Darren and Jason say you write "non-English," this is what they're talking about.

People fear what is different to them, mostly out of cognitive laziness; it takes effort to explore what is different. Nonetheless, I appreciate the attention to the game, and inefficient effort.

The correct preposition to use with "different" and the verb to be is always from, never to (even in the way you meant it), and there's no need for a comma before the three last words. It also takes effort to learn what is grammatically correct, apparently. Plus, saying that you "appreciate . . . inefficient effort" sounds like you appreciate all inefficient effort, anywhere, anytime, which seems a little out of place for a science doctoral fellow (which I believe you were at the time you wrote this).

As a preface, understand that their fear caused them to react emotionally. Their attempted review is only an emotional outburst and lacks substance. I do not need to rely on emotional appeals (no matter how funny and persuasive they can be), and will show the stupidity of their arguments, point by point, with reason.

Although rhetoric is effective, it is the lowest form of debate. So that it is clear who is who, Darren’s text is yellow, Jason’s is pink, and mine is FATAL red.

This is actually true - he does in fact show the stupidity of some of Darren and Jason's arguments. Of course, to do so, he ignored the justification the reviewers gave for their style.

I have a theory that he chose those colors quite carefully. For one, yellow, pink, and red on a black background are like brimstone in the eyes - white's about the only color that works, as Maddox has been saying for years - but from my personal experience, red isn't so bad. Yellow and pink are.

I shouldn't have to explain the other implications of picking yellow and pink for your opponents' colors. Dick Armey (he of the "Barney Fag" comment) would've been proud.

Burnout: I will also be commenting on this review. I am John, or as some people know me, Burnout. I have been an active contributor to the FATAL text since its conception. So my opinions may be very useful.

If you helped conceive this abortion, your opinions on this matter are about as useful as Willie Nelson's.

There is no God, and the proof of this can be found in a .pdf file from Fatal Games.

I wish that were true.

OK, we're one line into the actual defense, and he's already gone atheist. Great.

If this is the first time that you've ever heard of FATAL, you're in for a fun ride. Well, let me rephrase: You're in for a "fun ride" if you consider a fun ride to be, say, hitting your nutsack with a tack hammer. For about four hours.

Sartin: The nutsack/tack hammer thing wouldn't be a fun ride, but it is preferable to actually playing FATAL.

. . . Oh, hi. I'm Jason Sartin. You may remember me from such classic RPGnet moments as "the longest fucking SenZar review ever" and all those humanity-hating and "go kill yourself already" posts I leave on Tangency. I'll be helping Darren a lot with this review, because friends don't let friends review FATAL alone.

Also, this is obviously going to be one of those grandstanding "spectacle" reviews that tries to be crowd-pleasing. Those of you who hate that kind of review should do the honorable thing and whine your asses off in the forum below.

Pay attention to the last paragraph. Messrs. MacLennan and Sartin make it clear what they're going to do. Our friend Byron chooses to ignore that, since if he took it as partly humor (and exactly the kind of humor he later professes to enjoy), his defense goes mainly down the tubes.

So, Jason establishes his credibility, or lack thereof. He delivers, as promised, a review congruent with his "humanity-hating" and "kill yourself" reputation. As I said, his arguments lack substance, but readers will see that soon. Could his approach be considered juvenile? Ask yourself this question again later.

I've already answered it in my head. Yes, it can. So can yours.

Burnout: Ahhh what a spectacle this review was. It got pulled off of the Website 3 days after it was posted. Sounds crowd pleasing to me.

Missing comma after the onomatopoeia, capitalization, not spelling out "three," and missing hyphen in "crowd-pleasing." Small pet peeves, but I never said I'd be gentle. Also, didn't it get pulled off because of the flame wars?

You think I'm joking. You think that I'm exaggerating for comic effect. But you will be nodding your head with agreement, and also holding your swollen, bruised nutsack if you ever happen to open the FATAL .pdf up and give it anything but the most cursory of readthroughs.

Well, though the second part didn't come true, I certainly nodded my head after I read 160 pages in one day.

By the way, Darren fails to properly introduce himself. He is a moderator at RPG.net, and therefore represents their on-line community. Obviously, he is entertained with the thought of male readers hitting their "swollen, bruised nutsack" with a tack hammer. Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of Darren. Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of RPG.net, as he represents them.

Obviously, Byron here's going to keep making sly allusions to MacLennan and Sartin being gay. Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of Byron. (I could technically assume that he represents all authors of - I'm sorry, contributors to - FATAL, and therefore add in that their credibility is suspect too, but I'm not going to do that.) MacLennan's being a moderator at RPG.net doesn't really make him representative of their community, though - in the same manner the aforementioned Dick Armey wasn't representative of all Republicans despite being House Majority Leader. You're painting RPG.net with one brush, which is a logical fallacy. Oh, and again, unnecessary comma before the "and."

Sartin: He's not joking, people, and I wasn't, either. Those of you wondering what the most ass-tastic RPG of all time would look like - the one whose suck factor will forever demolish all challengers and tower over the ages with all the majesty of a homeless, mindless, drooling, shit-obsessed, impotent moron standing on a mountain of used Dragon Ball Z condoms - can finally die in peace.

The arguments are over. Anyone who says anything else is the worst RPG ever will...well, I'll inject kerosene into my bladder, piss on them, and then set them on fire. This game sucks THAT much.

Godfuckingdammit. We're hardly four words into the review, and already the game has dragged me down to its level.

Well, we're actually a fair bit further than four words into the review. Ignoring the profanity, though, Sartin happens to be right. Oh, and he needs spaces in his ellipsis, and it should be "asstastic" and "God-fucking-dammit."

I forgot to put this in before, so I'll do it now:

Burnout: I find the wording Sartin uses here very contradictory to his review. Just remember this statement, "well, I'll inject kerosene into my bladder, piss on them, and then set them on fire."

I think he refers to a later instance of the words being repeated as they apply to FATAL players. Not too sure.

Any child can rant. What matters is the quality of the argument. Jason is not being dragged anywhere, but responds like this because it is who he is, and would do better to own up to it. I intend to show that the substance of my argument is superior, and that Jason should be dragged up to it.

Actually, very few children can rant. Children can whine, moan, complain, and bitch amazingly. Ranting, however, is beyond most infantile minds. Furthermore, Byron compounds his original fallacy by assuming he knows who Sartin is, or what he is like.

Fine. I actually agree, for once. Sartin should confess to being childish, foul-mouthed, and violent in language. Byron should confess to being arrogant, under which we can categorize his egotism and his superiority complex. It's only fair.

So, why is it so bad?

Do tell.

You wouldn't be listening.

'Cause it's the Necronomicon of role-playing games. Not in the cool way, where it's a source of occult knowledge with a terrible, terrible price. It's the Necronomicon in the sense that if you leave a printed copy on your shelf with other RPGs, then the other RPGs will be clustered around the dead, violated body of one of its own in the morning. FATAL will most likely be down at the station in the sex crimes interrogation room, trying its best to put on an innocent face and failing miserably.

Sartin: Another useful comparison is that FATAL is basically anti-thought. As you can already see, it reacts violently with real sentience.

...as opposed to unreal sentience? I'm getting bored looking for a real argument.

Ellipses have spaces in them, Byron. I think Sartin's concept of "real sentience" might be limited to "people who did not make FATAL," but that's just me. As for the Necronomicon reference - I'm reasonably sure the book itself didn't violate anyone. But what do I know? I've read half a Lovecraft-inspired story, not even an original.

Oh, and "one of their own," Darren.

See, Synnibarr was bad, but you have to like Synnibarr.

Yes, it's a terrible role-playing game in just about every respect, but it's got heart; it's like a punch-drunk, half-blind boxer who hasn't realized that his manager is now "arranging fights" by pushing him in front of a speeding Mack truck and ringing a bell. He's going to get a license plate number embossed into his skull, but he's still out there, still trying.

Raven c.s. McCracken, although he's made the occasional misstep, also seems like a decent guy; just a tad misguided when it comes to writing games. There's an innocence to Synnibarr, a lack of subterfuge that makes it fun to think about, if not to read. If nothing else, it's the only game that I've seen so far that has a Midnight Sunstone Bazooka in it.

Well, I've heard worse about him than you have. Otherwise, the vivid metaphors are getting to be a little too much.

Sartin: Yeah. I like how World of Synnibarr is uniquely deranged. The first time I read through it, I knew I would never see anything else quite like it, like only McCracken could have made a game that's fucked up the way Synnibarr is fucked up. It's the Plan 9 From Outer Space of RPGs...its execution was horrible, but its wrongness has this charming quality to it, and I can't help liking it nowadays. I've actually got more entertainment out of it than most of the "good" games I own, and I don't regret buying it, so in a bizarre way, McCracken actually succeeded. But even compared to Synnibarr's few and faint good points, FATAL doesn't have anything going for it.

Again, we'll see how, if only Byron will let us.

Nothing at all? I can't wait to address some actual points. Can anyone say...sophistry?

Burnout: Yeah, isn't this supposed to be a review of FATAL, not Synnibar?

Christmas colors! Pretty!

Sophistry is a confusing or illogical argument designed to deceive. In other words, Byron here would be right, except MacLennan and Sartin do prepare you for what the game is, so it's not really deceptive.

Ellipses have spaces, and it's Synnibarr.

It's the shitty game to end all shitty games, and it could have been written by any 14 year old with an obsession with rape and defecation, no design skill, a warez copy of Photoshop, and months and months of lifeless weekends to work on it. Seriously, if Byron Hall and McCracken got into a RPG design fight, McCracken would reduce Hall to sucking his wang so fast every streetwalker in Las Vegas would be taking notes.

Burnout: For someone saying this game could be made by a 14-year old, Sartin sure does sound like one. I don't remember the last time I used the word "wang." I find the players of FATAL and I mature enough to use words like penis, dick, or cock...without giggling like Sartin obviously is after saying "wang."

I agree that the game couldn't be made by a fourteen-year-old. It's way too perverted for that. But unlike Burnout, I do remember the last time I used "wang." I'm pretty sure I was quoting Penny Arcade or making a joke about Florida. Or both, who knows?

"Dick" and "cock" are as mature as "wang." That is to say, they're not.

Oh, and again - stop assuming.

FATAL - well, if Synnibarr is timecube.com, then FATAL is tubgirl.com. (That last link, incidentally, is EXTREMELY GROSS AND NOT WORK SAFE IN THE SLIGHTEST.) It's a product so twisted, so fundamentally broken in its attitude towards sexuality, so unbelievably stupid that you'd think that the authors are trying to make themselves look like they're prime candidates for institutionalization. They're not, which makes it even scarier.
[Ed -- removed link. Not the kind of thing you want to see.]

Let's go down the list.

Twisted: Quite (7/10).
Fundamentally broken in its attitude towards sexuality: By all that is holy (10/10).
Unbelievably stupid: Not so much (3/10).

Byron isn't a candidate for institutionalization. He might damage the other patients.

Sartin: By the way, you'll notice lots and lots of these personal attacks on the creator and players of this game as this drags on.

I'm convinced, that's the best Jason can do.

Either we're missing a relative pronoun, or Byron just proved again he can't write in English. The man is a walking fumblerule.

While this is bad form in normal RPG reviews, it's hard to avoid here. For one, it's impossible for a game designer we shouldn't insult to create a game this goddamn stupid. For another, Hall and his personal drooling fanboys went out of their way to honor RPGnet's forums with their personal shot at the world record for "number of flame threads started before one's daily basement Necronomicon (Waldenbooks version) reading". And you know, I think they won it, too.

Give credit where credit is due. I did introduce my game, but I always posted professionally and addressed actual points. All flames were by RPGnetters, except for when two players in my group posted aggressively in my defense.

Burnout: As RPGnetters know, I am one of those two. I reacted emotionally in that flamewar, which is very unusual for me. I found it funny how during the days in question only one legitimate argument came up...the question of why there wasn't any homosexuals in the game. Due to some good points brought up by one person (I can't remember the name) this has since been changed.

They probably won it, and fair and square too, if they were just fighting off personal attacks.

Now, my personal arguing tips for each of them (handily collected in my new book, Do As I Say, Not As I Do):

Byron: Being an egotistical jackass isn't "professional." It's "being an egotistical jackass." I know some professors make it seem differently. They're wrong.

Burnout: Pfft. "Unusual" that you reacted emotionally? Please. I've made the same excuse. I know when I smell fima tauri. Also, ellipses have spaces, "flamewar" is not a compound noun no matter what Byron tells you, and good job on changing that. Even though your historically accurate game failed to take it into account on the first try.

For those who weren't there, the flame wars weren't very interesting. It was all simply another chapter in the long-ass book of moron game designers who have created the "BEST GAEM EVAR!!!" Except that in this chapter, the obligatory AD&D clone featured vagina circumference stats and rape rolls, and the moron game designer's followers had all the class and brain activity of scrotum lint.

Well, Jason's certainly right, it wasn't very interesting, mainly because the majority of the criticism was as emotional and unsupported as you've just read.

Uh-huh. I'm waiting for you to dismiss Burnout's defense because it was "emotional." Since being emotional is bad and all.

Oh, they want to be all evil and shocking and crap. God, how pathetically they tried. I mean, imagine opening a door to find your mother and sister raping each other with pink strap-ons. And you then realize that you've never seen their bare asses before, because you're pretty sure you would have remembered the swastikas tattooed there. And upon noticing you, they grin wickedly and give you the finger in unison.

Sartin, I projectile-vomited on my new pants. Your ass is getting billed.

No, seriously - what the hell? I admit I'm (mostly) on your side here and the metaphor is vivid enough. Still, the only feeling it gives me is one of utter and complete revulsion.

For the record, I've never tried to prove to RPGnetters that I'm evil and shocking. In fact, I've never tried to prove anything to them, except that their arguments are either emotional or poorly considered. I don't believe that Darren or Jason will ever be reasonable in debate. I am always willing to debate anything to do with FATAL, and I will always be professional while debating.

Again, for Byron, as for so many other people, "professional" = "arrogant" and "inhuman." Y'know, an emotional argument isn't necessarily bad. Some of the greatest arguments in history were made out of emotion - "I Have a Dream," "Ain't I A Woman?" or "We Shall Fight On the Beaches" all come to mind.

You haven't tried to prove anything to RPGnetters except your obvious superiority over them. You knew what you were getting into. So you chose to preach to the choir in the future.

It happens.

It's shocking in a way that instantly blights out all rational thought, but later, you'll have to admit the finger and wicked grinning part was kinda cool.

W.

T.

F.

Mate.

Bear in mind that Jason referred to rational thought, as though familiar with it.

Your pseudo-intellectual prose makes your insults ineffectual.

That's the feeling the FATAL morons so wish they could provoke.

I think it is Darren and Jason who wish to provoke feelings, for lack of a better approach.

Don't effing do that. You posted this skewering of the review (because that's exactly what an "author's defense" is) as a way to rile up your fans and to get them pissed at the people who criticized your game. If you're going to be professional, don't be a hypocrite.

Instead, they're more like opening that door to find your weeks-unwashed Otaku brother in his soiled underwear, masturbating furiously to - of all the goddamn things in the world - an Archie comic. And on his bare ass is a tattoo of, inexplicably, someone else's ass, and he's disgustingly fat enough for it to be a good 14 inches across. And as he goes at it, he's quietly moaning to himself about how worthless women, fags, and niggers are and how they should all be raped or murdered.

Y'know, Sartin, this is probably why some of Byron's argument is true.

Wrong. I don't have a brother (Are you projecting? What was your brother like?), a tattoo, and I don't consider women, homosexuals, and blacks to be worthless, nor deserving of rape and murder. If you're suggesting that because rape is covered in the game (on 2 pages out of 900), that I support it (it's only detailed under Overbearing in Wrestling, and Sociality...where a footnote supports the historical accuracy), then anyone who plays nearly any role-playing game supports murder (or killing, which may be a better definition), because murder (killing) is usually the focus of nearly all games. I guarantee that a comparison of the percentage of a work devoted to murder or killing is higher in other RPG's than rape is in FATAL.

Again, let's break this down to constituent parts.

You started by turning a metaphor that was at no point compared to reality into a personal insult and accused the reviewer of suffering mental trauma (which, considering what he just typed, may be true). Continuing this assumption, you tried to cover your ass about blacks, homosexuals and women. You then made a reference to how much content in the game covers rape.

It is not two pages, good sir. You included magic items about rape, forced entry, etc. etc. "Rapeseed of Raping" not come to mind? What about the weapon that makes women pregnant?

Furthermore, killing and murder are not the same thing unless you're completely opposed to all taking of life - which doesn't seem to be your case - and, since you praise historical accuracy so much, in most roleplaying games, killing is a part of a hired mission, y'know, as part of a job, and involves either subhuman-intelligence monsters, or decidedly evil creatures bent on wreaking a whole lot more havoc on humanity. This argument is especially weak considering the counterpoint: FATAL is just as murder-obsessed, then, as any other RPG out there.

Oh, and to finish it off, you talk about how FATAL barely covers rape. You did skip over the fact that it does cover killing. In great detail - greater detail than most other RPGs, in fact.

In fact, I've included numerous things with which I diagree in FATAL, such as gods, an ethical-moral system, etc. Jason probably knows that his conclusions are faulty, but is apparently willing to be at fault. I am not.

First, it's "disagree."

Second, of course you don't like ethical/moral systems. If you did, you'd have to admit that your weird obsession with genitalia and sex acts may be just a little creepy.

Third, since Burnout used this tactic, I believe you consider it valid: Sartin's willing to be at fault, but you are not. That says a lot about both of you - especially you, the consummate professional debater who never reacts emotionally. It tells me that you cannot fathom being in great error.

Sure, you can correct minor mistakes - you did it at the end of this defense - but you cannot believe that you, personally, on a level of character, are at fault.

I'm doing this, mind you, because I assume I know you, since you assume you know Sartin and MacLennan from their review.

Burnout: I personally think that rape and murder come up, whether behind closed doors or out in the open, in at least 90% of gaming groups. FATAL just makes it so you see exactly how bad it actually is by trying not to hide it or pretend it didn't happen. Instead on those pages you'll find information supported by references on how often it happened and what happened to the criminal. Now does this mean anybody who plays FATAL supports it? No, it simply shows that most people try to sweep it under the rug. We know it is, unfortunately, a day-to-day occurence.

Ninety percent of gaming groups discuss murder and rape.

Really.

Who the hell do you play with? I've had one gaming group, ran a campaign while another changed DMs, and have been to a few meetings where I live at the moment. None of them even mentioned the word "rape," there were no mentions of sexual assault, nothing.

FATAL protects itself by using disclaimers. Weak protection. Furthermore, it doesn't really show that most people try to sweep it under the rug - it shows that most people don't want to think about it during a fucking roleplaying game instead of just bashing swords with some orcs.

It's been said that RPGs are escapes from reality. You can murder with impunity because there are no real attorneys or jails. Politicians don't go crazy because a kobold town is razed by a paladin. No one asks about the beat-up bugbear's civil rights. 24: Medieval Edition. For Byron and John, though, it's not enough that you can take life as you wish.

It's still disturbing on all kinds of levels. But it's the kind of stupid disturbing that ends with you having to answer questions to the satisfaction of a prosecuting attorney.

If the law must consider something to be disturbing, it is the libelous approach of Darren and Jason.

So sue them. Or would you have a problem proving the libel once you read content from this thing to a jury? Oh, that's right, they're mere mortal human beings.

Point is, the FATALites have repeatedly proven that treating them with any respect or dignity is pointless, so we're not going to waste your time or ours with the effort. Back in their raving lunatic days, I had thought that Raven c.s. McCracken and the SenZar guys had been full of it, but Byron Hall and his fellow lobotomy candidates made them look like Rebecca Borgstrom on a prozac bender.

Again, if it is to be debated as to which party deserves respect, I'll let the reader draw their own conclusion.

They might not deserve respect because of how virulent they've been in just introducing the review. You, on the other hand, definitely don't deserve respect for having made this.

Oh, and two things:
1. No "as" is necessary.
2. "Their" is plural. "Reader" is not.

See? Non-English.

Burnout: They refuse to waste time showing dignity or respect, but spend pages upon pages showing the opposite. I would like to state that I prefer being called a Fatalist, not a FATALite.

Well, they just said you didn't deserve it, so why are you expecting anything else? Have you been reading properly, or cherry-picking like you accuse MacLennan and Sartin of doing?

Oh, and about your preferred moniker - who the hell cares? Political correctness, which you and Byron seem to hate with a fiery passion, and which I despise since it rids the world of so much great comedy, is for races and sexual orientations. It is not for RPG players who can't withstand the urge to make magic items that force wielders to rape others.

It's getting pretty obvious, Byron, that you picked the wrong person to help with this defense.

But don't worry! None of this will be a problem, because even if you can ignore the misogynistic, homophobic, racist, and all-around idiotic mindset of its core supporters, FATAL blows goats with such panache that it's hard to imagine anyone looking at it and not concluding that Hall should've given up the needle.

Sartin, you're not helping - stop accusing them of using drugs or they actually have something on which to sue.

By the way, you may notice that I write the "authors" of the game, rather than "author". There's a reason for this: While the game lists only a single author, there are many signs that lead me to believe that Ye Olde Abominatione has more than one author, although uncredited. You'll find an explanation later, but I just wanted to get that out of the way.

Darren comes back on this one. Not much here though.

Several pages will credit a multitude of people for everything from design to play-testing. All ideas were submitted to me, and written or re-written by me. The credits section of FATAL will not only list people, but describe who is responsible for what. Many have asked in e-mails why it is not part of the free version. This, I refuse to answer until after it is printed.

"This, I refuse to answer until after it is printed." Not only does it sound arrogant, it's you refusing to answer your question to your own followers. Y'know, the people who defended your game.

Byron, sweetie, I'm trying my best not to hate you, but you're being a retard.

Burnout: As stated earlier, I have been a contributor to this game and know that it will be shown later. But my own words are not shown in the text (that I know of). I bring up my views to Byron during normal conversation or game-testing, and if disproved by scholarship it does not show up in the text. On the other hand, if there is nothing to disprove my point and it seems logical, it will most likely be researched and added as needed.

Then you've been used, plain and simple. I don't care about the credit - if your ideas contributed to the game's success (whatever that may have been) and you got nothing tangible out of it, Byron got you good.

Sartin: Meanwhile, you'll notice I've simply gone with acting like there's one author. What can I say? It's easier when there's only one legendary-industry-boob-for-the-next-ten-years to blame, and the thought that another human being actually said to him "Hey, FATAL sounds really cool. Let me contribute to it!" is too depressing to contemplate.

In retrospect, I'll say he probably should've gone along with MacLennan. He would've been either right, or closer to right.

Let's start with the title page.

It's about time.

I agree, they took years to get to the actual review. But on the other hand, if they hadn't done so, you wouldn't be prepared to know what this game is like, and that can be murder on your soul if you didn't get ready.

So anyway - with that said, I'm leaving you for now. Review Session #2 will be out whenever I feel like it (maybe sometime in August). Expect FATAL Fridays themselves to continue as often as possible.

FATAL: Game Session #1

2009-09-11T00:00:00.000-07:00

Hello.

I go by Menzies. (That's pronounced "MING-iss." It's Scottish.) I'll be your co-reviewer tonight for the obscenity that is FATAL, writing in charcoal. I will likely be the more foul-mouthed of us, but according to policy, I will still minimize my personal attacks on the game's creators. I'll also probably be handling the roleplaying criticisms themselves.

Bonjour!

I am Zo (pronounced “ZOH”, unlike Ming-boy here with the strange spelling). I am the other reviewer for FATAL, that oh-so-(not)-lovely masterpiece of the RPG world. I will be writing in periwinkle, to create an internal conflict about the cheerful nature of the color versus the far less cheerful abomination that is FATAL. But hey, I’ll be doing the review, so it’s not so bad.

I said previously that I'd be using FATAL red for particularly offensive stuff. Then I decided I was too lazy to label the stuff that was "particularly" offensive as separate from all the other offensive stuff. If I do use it though, you should know what to expect.

Allow me to also issue the warning, once more, that these posts will contain swearing. They will also contain stuff that would make any normal human go crazy. Click the SFW label to see only non-swearing posts. Oh, and the PDF is still hosted here, if, for some masochistic reason, you want to follow along.

Let's start with the title page.

Yes. Let's.

First of all, before you're fooled by the abbreviation ("From Another Time, Another Land"): that's not what FATAL used to stand for. It used to stand for Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery. That's right, kiddos - not only perverted, but blissfully unaware of English grammar. Although it is a pretty good assessment of what we've read of the game.

Zo, wanna take this one?

The central figure is an anakim (a half-human, half-fallen-angel cross), wielding a heavy blood-covered sledgehammer that just finished knocking out an unfortunate goblin. The goblins, you see, are holding a young, beautiful, naked, fake-breasted woman captive (appropriately held back by a choker-and-chain around the neck). But, sadly, what really stands out about this whole scene is the anakim's bulging thong-clad crotch. It's at the center of the page and seems almost illuminated. The loincloth, as I suppose FATAL's authors would call it, looks painfully tight, with mere strings holding it at the sides and, well, you figure out why I call it a thong.

The second page isn't much better. Another perfectly fit woman, tied by leather straps - which, coincidentally, are also known as thongs - at the wrists, ankles, neck, and, of course, despite it being completely unnecessary, the breasts. Our victim of apparent medieval breast reduction surgery lies on a giant slab of stone bearing the game's acronym and (changed) abbreviation, flanked by two torches. This is followed by the author's name.

Get used to hearing "Byron Hall," lads, because we will throw that name around a lot.

We skip the next page (copyright and font - "chosen for its historical accuracy") so we can start on some real stuff. Zo?

"Welcome to a fantasy medieval role-playing game that focuses on realism and detail whenever possible without sacrificing fun."

Well. I certainly can't blame Hall for making a game that lacks detail. In fact, I'd say his is possibly the most (disturbingly) detailed game I have ever come across. But you'll find out about that later, when we get into the really juicy bits. However, the realism? That's debatable.

"Despite the focus on realism, several tenets of fantasy are assumed. In the world of this game, magic exists as well as spellcasters such as mages, witches, and druids. Second, fantastic creatures roam the world, including kobolds and dragons, among others."

Fair enough.

"Finally, dozens of gods exist, and moreover these gods are concerned with their worshippers, the state of the world, and their own godly interests."

I wonder if they're concerned about how you stole them from various Earth traditions.

"Aside from these basic assumptions of fantasy, realism is sought in every other respect and applied to these fantastic tenets as well as the gaming world and role-playing system."

We'll come back to this. Boy, will we come back.

Next section:

"This game attempts to isolate Europe from influences that originate outside it. Therefore, spices from the East are not included, all human characters are Caucasian, zombies are not presumed to exist, and human corpses are burned -- Egyptians invented embalming, and Egypt is outside Europe."

This game has potato sacks. Somehow, the 1,000 hours of research claimed overlooked where one of the Earth's most common staple foods came from.

True, Egyptians invented embalming. However, there were burials in Europe as far back as the Mycenaean period, and by Ancient Greek and Roman times, cremation was still common but not universal.

"The fantasy of F.A.T.A.L. is a polytheistic, European-based world with medieval technology, in which Christianity never existed. Although it is technically impossible to be historically accurate in a fantasy game, historical accuracy that supports the fantasy of this game is referenced at the end of this book. Footnotes appear throughout this book to reference classical, historical, or scholarly sources."

The only problem I have is the sentence . . . "historical accuracy that supports the fantasy of this game is referenced at the end of this book." It's clumsy prose, but aside from that, it implies there's historical accuracy that doesn't support the fantasy of the game. In other words, F.A.T.A.L. is historically accurate as long as the accuracy supports it.

Considering what the rest of this game is like, I'd be very offended if I was one of these authors.

You've had enough of my rambling, so let's throw it back over to Zo with a real gem:

Hall goes on to describe what a role-playing game is. He proceeds to use an example.

"For instance, assume you are an adventuring knight who has just fought his way up to the top of a dark tower where you find a comely young maiden chained to a wall."

So far, this seems like a reasonable example. It's they typical damsel-in-distress scenario that everyone is familiar with.

Trust FATAL to screw it up.

"What would you do?"

Well, let's see the options.

What would Jesus do?

"Some players may choose to simply free the maiden out of respect for humanity."

Certainly possible.

I'm also gonna stop here and mention that the original example cast the maiden as a "whimpering wench." Credit to Hall for ridding it of the original misogyny. But not much.

"Others may free her while hoping to win her heart."

This is acceptable, and is the most common scenario in fairy tales (subverted in Shrek).

"Instead of seeking affection, some may talk to her to see if they can collect a reward for her safe return."

Perhaps not the most scrupulous of knights that, but hey, it's human nature, right? Han Solo did it in Star Wars, no reason a lesser mortal can't do it too.

"Then again, others may be more interested in negotiating freedom for fellatio."

Wow. What a jackass of a knight. Really. Taking advantage of a poor captive woman. So much for a code of honor.

Mind you, the game has a section on chivalry (which, as you may know, has Christian influences). I suppose it is(n't) "historically accurate" that most medieval knights who found maidens chained to walls asked for oral sex in return for freedom. Oh, wait, oral sex was considered unclean and humiliating in Rome.

As Jason Sartin said, and as you'll hear me say repeatedly: "Fucking FATAL."

"Some may think she has no room to bargain and take their fleshly pleasures by force."

I suppose there are loser knights, desperate for sex, who can't take rejection. I suppose some men would rather rape a woman than have a willing, consenting partner. I suppose there are sickos out there who'd take advantage of the situation. Let's just say that the fact that Hall even says "fleshly pleasures" should tell you enough about his little fetishes for raping innocent maidens. But onwards.

Fleshly Pleasures sounds like a porn film. No, I didn't search for it. No, I don't intend to. Stop asking.

It's fine. Googling "fleshly pleasures" gives you a Puritan sermon.

"Others would rather kill her, dismember her young cadaver, and feast on her warm innards."

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Well, after that glowing endorsement of cannibalism, we come to this:

"As you can see, the number of decisions one could make with one simple situation can quickly become overwhelming."

I suppose so, if you're that depraved. Historical accuracy aside, there's a reason Dungeons & Dragons and Vampire: The Masquerade and GURPS don't talk about fellatio and rape on their introduction page - not only does it serve to convince people that RPGs are practically Satanic siege engines, but most of them revolve around portraying your characters as heroes. Since, generally, you'd agree with their actions.

Of course, if you agree with the actions of a rapist, that's perfectly fine. I just hope the orderlies will be nice to you.

Another thing. According to the book, the sourcebook Neveria (I can smell the originality) is necessary if anyone will be playing a priest. Look, I know a lot of (better) RPGs do this too - require a separate sourcebook to establish the setting and all. However, they didn't set out to be "the most complete, historically accurate roleplaying game" available. Since you've said no one you gave this to was overwhelmed by 1,003 PDF pages, add a few more. Make the effort.

Moving along, the Terminology section has another of these wonderful gems:

"Additionally, 'd%' or 'd100' indicates that two 10-sided dice are to be rolled, but the results are not added together. Instead, 1 die (which is announced beforehand) is interpreted as the 'tens' position and the other as the 'ones' position. So, if two 10-sided dice were rolled, resulting in a 6 and a 9, and the die that resulted in a 6 was announced as the 'tens' position, then the results would be interpreted as 69."

That's right, lads. FATAL just took an entire paragraph to make a sex position joke. Not only historically accurate and realistic, but mature as well - how could I refuse?

And by the way, this is only the first time. No pun intended.

Next up, we learn the term FATAL has for its gamemaster. That would be the aedile (I refuse to dignify this by capitalizing it), which, as the game tells you, is pronounced "EE-dial."

First of all, this used to be "Maim Master." That's a pun (game : maim, see?) and, well - I hate to pull out this adjective so early on - but that's just juvenile. I'm actually glad that it was changed.

The new title doesn't do much better. First of all, "EE-dial" is a grossly Anglicized pronunciation. Historically speaking (since the authors emphasize it so much), the office was aedilis, from the Latin aedes, "building," and would have been pronounced "ah-eh-DE-les."

Second, it's not without its own lame humor. An aedile who is not objective is a Hostile Aedile or a Vile Aedile. I hear P. Diddy's holding auditions again, guys.

Before I toss things back over to Zo, one last phrase:

"Nonetheless, the safest method is to progress through the book page by page to avoid missing anything."

That's a little like saying the safest method is to listen to all of The Rite of Spring. It's important to be thorough, but at the end, you'll probably prefer the sanity you once had.

Nonetheless, Zo and I will attempt to pick through. We'll tell you what we skip, so you can see it for yourself (link's still up there).

Now, Zo (with my comments still showing up here and there):

"The Mean System is the set of mechanics behind F.A.T.A.L. -- the gaming engine, if you will."

The "Mean" System. Enough said.

"The most common aspects of the Mean System are the normal curve, mean, and standard deviation, though parabolic curve-fitting and trigonometric functions have been incorporated as well."

Wait, what? This guy just said, about one page before, that:

"Players will not need math that is more complicated than basic algebra, and even that is relatively rare."

I guess he changed his mind, huh? Anyway.

"A mean game needs a mean system."

Nice pun there, buddy. Bet you think you're clever don't you? (He keeps getting more clever in the 'Items' section, but we'll get to that later.)

Much later, at this pace. Plus, if you take "mean" to mean "average," as Aristotle - one of their favorite "historically accurate" sources - did, then this gets a whole lot funnier.

"Enjoy the most simple and sophisticated mechanics in the industry. Enjoy F.A.T.A.L."

It sounds like an overly sensual ice cream ad. Except if you know what it stands for (originally), he's saying "Enjoy Fantasy Adventure to Adult Lechery."

Great. Really.

Back to me for a bit, we find this gem.

"F.A.T.A.L. is for adults only. This role-playing game is not intended for children due to content that is obscene, lecherous, and violent."

Fair.

Am I the only one who finds the word 'lecherous' to be something a sadistic pedophile would say?

No. No, you're not.

"This game includes obscene language. Fatal Games considers obscenity to be a sensitive issue, and only includes it because of its prominence in the past as a significant part of human history. Most of the rules of the game avoid obscenity."

Well, let's give credit where it's due. He did rewrite some of the rules to avoid the original juvenile humor, even if he did it so that his arguments about "maturity" and "professionalism" would be right ex post facto.

"For example, it is possible to determine a character's manhood, not cock, and vaginal depth, not cunt depth."

It's also possible for a male character to stick his fuckstick in a Jar of Jacking Off, or for stuff to grow out of a dick-hole or cunt-pipe, or for a maiden to be named Cuntrina. Just pointing that out.

I just want to point out that even having a way to determine a character's 'manhood' and 'vaginal depth' is pretty obscene in itself.

"However, the greatest concentration of obscenity is in Appendix 3: Random Magical Effects, and is intended for humorous effect."

Wait just one goddamn minute. Not five sentences ago you said it was included only "because of its prominence in the past as a significant part of human history." So which is it? Part of your study on profanity, or shits and giggles?

Zo's slowly losing it, so we're going to try to hasten this up a bit - this is the last page we're doing.

"This game includes sex and sexual situations. Fatal Games considers sex to be a sensitive issue, and only includes it because of its prominence in the past as a significant part of human history."

Understatement of the century, my friend. I mean, c'mon, if it weren't for sex, we wouldn't be here.

"Optional material exists so that a player may determine sexual features of their character, such as genitalia. For example, it is possible to determine penis size, cup size, or vaginal circumference, among others."

Really.

Optional material. So why isn't it marked as optional material? Or do you expect me to separate all the sexual stuff in the character creation sections from, let's face it, all the other sexual stuff in the character creation sections?

Hall and Burnout were quite fond of using the "you should use logic" defense in their metacriticism (watch for the first session of that next week). Just one problem. You're selling a product. It's your job to make sure the customer knows how to use it. That includes what the customer doesn't have to do in order to enjoy the product.

And by the way, 'vaginal circumference' is not an anatomically valid measure. AT ALL.

I can already see how much fun the tables are going to be with Zo.

"Killing is a core element of most role-playing games. Fatal Games considers the act of killing to be a sensitive issue, and only includes it because of its prominence in the past as a significant part of human history. Warfare is the best example of violence, and has occurred throughout European history."

I have a problem with this. It insinuates that all RPGs are equal in one respect: they implicitly condone murder by not posting big warnings about how you shouldn't go out and kill people. FATAL is somehow better because it recognizes the act of killing as "sensitive."

Here's a news flash: no one cares.

The reason no other RPG posts these warnings isn't because they condone murder. It's because they assume you're mature enough not to go running around with a PSG1 and blast someone in the sclera. This says a lot about who you expect your product to reach.

But of course, we have to have a section on rape.

"Since the game includes both sex and violence, the combination is also included: rape."

Oh, boy! I can hardly wait! (Said in my amazing Mickey Mouse impression.)

"Rape is not intended to be a core element of F.A.T.A.L., as killing is a core element of most role-playing games."

So because most role-playing games implicitly condone murder, you don't want to base yours around rape. That would be credible - if your example didn't already include it. In fact, since rape includes sex obtained by coercion, fully half of the examples you gave of the knight's possible reactions to the chained-maiden scenario involve rape. One involves murder. Not a core element, no - it constitutes only fifty percent of the possible actions! No, no rapid ass-covering there, sir!

The fact that you have to point out that rape is not the core element of FATAL, well, it worries me.

"In Jacques Rossiaud's Medieval Prostitution, he reviews statistics on rape from numerous towns and cities in southeast France during economic and social stability, not war. Jacques attempts to represent all medieval prostitution with this book."

What really worries me here is that Hall's (favorite) source equates rape with prostitution. Basically, Hall thinks that rape victims are willing and deserving of their rape.

While we agreed not to say anything too offensive, have you ever seen Byron Hall and this guy in the same room?

His favorite source overall is Aristotle, I think, though Rossiaud comes close (which is telling). I think my real problem here is that last sentence. Rossiaud attempted to represent all medieval prostitution by examining one country (France) in one century (1400s). That is transparently poor scholarship, and Hall, who claims to have been a science doctoral fellow at the time he was writing this, should've known not to trust a source that analyzes only one country and one time period to represent a centuries-long phenomenon.

"In it, he estimates that half the male youth participate in at least one gang rape, and that sexual violence is an everyday dimension of community life."

So, Hall is okay with half of males participating in (at least one) gang rape, and he is okay with sexual violence in everyday life. He is accepting and supporting (highly questionable) statistics that basically half of men are abusive, coercive, cruel, violent, selfish, hurtful, sadistic, chauvinistic, and unable to control their "lecherous" urges.

Though we can't verify them without wading through the same shit-caked swamps Hall did, I'd say I agree with Zo's assessment of the statistics. Especially if he (Rossiaud, Hall, or both) performed some Patricia Pulling-like mathematics to come to that conclusion. While I've met women who would qualify that assessment of what half of men are like as an understatement, I feel rather confident saying that it's true of a very small number of us.

"Role-playing situations that accurately represent mythology are likely at some point to include rape, molestation, encounters in brothels, or possibly situations that deviate more from social norms."

Like, for example, casting a spell, or putting on a magic item. Fumbling the F.A.T.A.L. equivalent of magic missile can make you desire sex exclusively with menstruating women, while just holding the wrong jar will want you make to put your fuckstick - I mean, "manhood" - in it. Oh, and there's a magic item called the Rapeseed of Raping.

Also, Hall conveniently neglects to point out that role-playing situations that accurately represent mythology are likely at some point to include substantially less juicy bits with heroism, love, regret, and the triumph of 'good', none of which he particularly emphasizes in FATAL. Unlike the sex. Which he does emphasize. A lot.

"While the objective of the game is not intended to be any of these in their own right, sex and violence may reasonably occur depending on the circumstances, and have been detailed in gaming terms therein."

I suppose "reasonably" means "within reason" or "able to be reasoned out." Of course, you'd expect a knight who finds a maiden chained to a wall to want sex from her - even if he's following a chivalric code of honor that dictates he be chaste and protect the chastity of other women. Or better yet, I suppose you'd also expect that he would kill her and eat her.

Say it with me: fucking FATAL.

And of course, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a bit of jewellery would make you want to rape every viable "orifice" within a one-mile radius.

Totally.

"It is possible to play this game without a character entering a single sexual or violent situation, though information and tables for sex and violence are provided so that they may be used or dismissed as deemed appropriate by each gaming group."

Again, if magical effects include anything having to do with your dickhole/cuntpipe, then no, it is not possible. Stuff that gaming groups can use at their discretion is for supplements - free supplements, I suppose, in your case.

"Fatal Games advises minors not to participate in this game, and suggests that the players and Aedile discuss the appropriateness and degree of sex and violence for their gaming group. The information in this game does not represent the worldviews of Fatal Games, nor is extreme violence or extreme sex condoned by Fatal Games. Instead, the information is included for comprehensiveness. F.A.T.A.L. (From Another Time, Another Land) may be adapted to any gaming group."

Note how there is no mention about Hall not condoning extreme violence or extreme sex. This is fairly obvious in the game itself. There are dozens of pages listing out all the various places you can hack off a person with the appropriate weapon, several eye-gouging attacks, and approximately three references to non-extreme or nonviolent sex. Yes, three. Maybe less.

Pouncing on Zo's comment here, I like that he calls himself "Fatal Games." According to him, he's the only author of this book, so why didn't he just say the content doesn't represent his worldviews and he doesn't condone extreme sex and extreme violence? I'm not saying it's necessarily an untrue statement - I fully believe Byron Hall, given the chance, would not kill, dismember, and eat a woman. Unless he was found guilty of it in a court of law, in which case saying otherwise is close to perjury.

Either way, Zo is right. The game is chockablock with sexual and violent content. You'll get to see more of it later - if we last that long, of course.

Well, that's all for now. I'm afraid Ming and I have to take a break, to prevent our brains from rotting and oozing out our ears. See you all later, darlings.

With Zo zonking out on me and the "Races" section coming up, that's a great point on which to end this session. We hope you didn't enjoy this, because if you did, you are a sick, sick person.

Get help. I mean it.

Seriously.

Project FATAL

2009-09-08T15:07:00.000-07:00

This blog - The Constant WTF - is meant to explore the kind of literature that makes us reconsider humanity's alleged superiority over all other animals. Slogging through this muck is not something we take upon ourselves willingly, which is why you don't see us updating often, or at all.

However, if there was ever something meant to end up on this website, FATAL is it.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the name, and don't want to read the article, FATAL (originally Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery, then From Another Time, Another Land) is a role-playing game, such as Dungeons & Dragons or Vampire: The Masquerade, independently published some years ago by a supposed group of contributors headed by one Byron Hall.

Like most role-playing games, FATAL had rules for character creation, use of skills, combat, and other integral aspects of gameplay. Unlike most role-playing games, FATAL considered sex and rape an integral aspect of gameplay, adding rules (and heavily mathematical ones, at that) for both situations.

Interested yet?

Well, if you're not, too bad. I'm going to conflate this blog with another older one I had lying around - FATAL Fridays - by posting the sessions from there over here. It'll be done over the course of the next few weeks.

Enjoy!

Vampire Sex

2009-03-28T09:54:00.000-07:00

I was browsing through the literary stacks of a famous (but for now, anonymous) website, looking for a good vampire story, when I found, on the front page of the 'Popular' works, a ditty called "Vampire Sex."

This being Zo, she informed me, and I of course asked to see what was causing her such distress. In related news, I'm suddenly much more annoyed at being in a jurisdiction where buying massive quantities of vodka is illegal to me.

I suppose there's no delaying the unfortunately inevitable, so let's dive into it. The story, as in all future cases, will be in italics. (You should already know the colors Zo and I use for snarking.)

He gathered me into his arms and pressed his hips to mine. Laying me down upon the gothic bed composed of black satin and silk sheets.

First of all, this is not really a sentence. It's actually a dependent clause. Not only that, it's a badly written dependent clause. There are too many adjectives, and really, a bed isn't "composed" of sheets.

Ebony lace of mid-evil nature draped like tar on the post with daemons heads.

It's kind of sad that we're three sentences into this story and two of them are, well, not really so much sentences as groups of words ending in periods. Not just that, but the author, whom we'll be calling "Skittles" from now on, doesn't seem to grasp the concept of the possessive apostrophe.

Oh, and lest any of you think I missed it, what the flying guinea pig is "mid-evil"? A misspelling of "medieval"? An adjective describing something that is middlingly evil? And furthermore, why is this "ebony lace of mid-evil nature draped like tar"? Tar drapes?

Parting my legs with massive aggression, he placed his tongue upon me. Licking slowly up before burring his nose.

I'm trying my best to disregard the pun ("massive aggression", anyone?) and the painful drama of this badly-acted sexual encounter. Besides, in the hanging dependent clause, we learn that the guy is burring his nose . . . "burring"? What? What the fuck? According to my handy dandy dictionary, this can mean three things--to speak with an accent that trills the 'r', to form a rough edge on, or, in its noun form, a small rotary cutting tool. Not only was I not aware that noses could even do any of these three things, but even if they could, is it something you would want to happen in very close proximity to your genitalia? I think not.

Moaning, my back arched into a million poses.

Speaking from both personal and secondhand experience, that is simply not possible. The bones in your back and your spine simply do not have that range of movement, especially if you're going to limit the possibilities by arching your back. Unless, of course, you're made of Flubber, in which case sex with you must be disgusting.

Also, might I add - as a minor note - that the way this sentence is written, it is the character's back that is moaning? It would make sense, given that arching your back into a million poses would probably involve a high degree of excruciating pain, but notably, most humanoids don't have an orifice capable of producing sound on their backs. Below their backs, yes, but not on them.

He tickles his fingers into me. Pressing further as far as one can go. I lay teasing my nipples erect and pinching them to my hearts content.

Tickles his fingers into you? What, is he working your baby fat? Or . . . I just read that dependent clause. No. Oh, God, no. This can't be happening.

Maybe it gets better, right? Maybe there's a light at the -

My body drives its hunger; my thoughts are of rape and animalistic sex.

First of all, the clause before the semicolon is unclear - the body is driving its own hunger? Is the "its" referring to something else?

Second of all - and more importantly by several exponents - the character's thoughts are of, let me quote again, "rape and animalistic sex." Let that sink in for a bit.

That's not just poorly phrased, but given that the character seems to be in control of the situation throughout - and you'll see just how much, in all its gory and nauseating detail - rape? Really? That's what this is making her think? Skittles has issues.

Bondage and Domination cover my mind.

Capitalized, no less. Like they were Roman divinities.

He presses his middle finger into me as I feel my body roar. Sliding my fingers through his hair I coax him upwards to me in wanting. Teasing his lips with my tongue I press his lips to mine and mingle them into one.

I was not aware that it was possible for lips to mingle into one. In fact it reminds me of that story where god punishes the lovers by melding them together in what I can only assume to be an incredibly uncomfortable position.

Undressing him till nothing was left. His cock hard pushing in between my legs. Tracing the outer parts of my clit. Making it thrive and pulse.

It's pretty clear what Skittles' major problem is as a writer, at least in this piece - imagery is nice and all, but this constant rush of participle-led adjective phrases isn't really helping me get into the scene. There are verbs, and commas, for good reasons. The idea is to use them.

And the tables turn, flipping him to his muscular back and dragging my sharp nails down his shoulders up his chest.

Here, I can only assume that the previously silk and satin bed has turned into a table that has actually physically flipped the guy. Besides that, I'm not sure how, anatomically, you can move nails from a human's shoulders UP to his chest.

Casting my glow upon him as the devil I shall become.

And this, I just don't even know what it's TRYING to mean.

Straddling him with one leg as far apart from the other as possible I grind into him.

Well, it would make sense if the bed were a table all of a sudden, because that is not a sustainable position in bed. Nor a particularly comfortable one for grinding . . . and also, grinding? Of all the verbs that could be used for it? They're not dancing to Daddy Yankee, they're having sex. Or I suppose they could be having sex to Daddy Yankee, but - you know what? I'm going to stop now.

Taking out a red crimson scarf that I have used to torture my last soul. Tying him tightly to the post and giving no mercy.

Um, can I just point out that crimson is a shade of red? It's like calling something "violet purple."

Also, I'm not really sure what Skittles means by the torturing part. Does it mean she used it to torture the last soul she took? Or does it mean that she's using it to torture this one? If so, how did she use it? Silky ties are not exactly high on my list of excruciating pain.

I insert him into me, fucking him harder as my rhythm glides and increases.

Rhythm doesn't glide, now does it? Further, I'm not sure how gliding would function within the mechanics of sex. I picture her just sliding off to the side but, you know, if Tab A is inserted into Slot B, wouldn't that sort of halt the progress?

Taking my fingers and intertwining them with his nipples as I grasp and use his erect pecks to pull him into me more.

Let me just shout out for a moment to all the men reading this at the moment (yes, both of you) and ask: have you, regardless of how much exercise you do, ever described your pectorals as "erect?" Or spelled the short form of it "pecks?"

Because otherwise, what we're basically getting here is a woman riding a man to whom she is simultaneously giving a serious case of the nipple cripple. Given that I went to high school (read: was subjected to this way too many times for my liking) I know that, in this man's place, I would immediately get up and start putting clothing back on.

Also, besides the disturbing image of two mountainous male bosoms, hard in their erectness and rather cone or tube-shaped (it seems, from the choice of words, that Skittles really wants a man with three penises--one down below and two up top for her hands to grope), it seems like intertwining fingers with nipples would be hard . . . unless they are incredibly long nipples, which is both comical and bizarre. Imagine having to finger-length appendages sticking out from your 'pecks'. Ouch . . . or at the very least, yuck.

Riding him into an eternity of nothing but sex. Fucking him literally just to achieve what I want. And I feel it arise. The sensation of bliss. The last step of my goal.

This is incredibly awkward because not only is this 'rider' being a total bitch by using this guy for sex much as one would a sex toy (those hard, plastic things), but she makes it sound like a self-help or pyramid scheme. Step 1 is admitting you have a problem . . . Step 12 is orgasm. Further, she says it so unemotionally that it seemes quite close to sociopathy. While I understand that vampires are not known for their compassion and emotion, well . . . if you're trying to build up intense erotic passion, it's not really the best thing to show so nonchalantly.

I feel my body tremble over him as I tighten around him. Still not stopping and practically fucking myself.

What? I don't even comprehend this bit. Wouldn't this mean the sex is awful?

And as I collapse onto him, he motions for more.

My only observation is that collapsing onto your sex partner, particularly when you're on top of said sex partner and he has an erection, would likely hurt. Both of you. Which would make it very, very hard to "motion for more." Therefore, I arbitrarily assume that what the man was actually gesticulating at the vampire was more along the lines of "get off me, my genitals are in unimaginable pain."

And with one tragic bite I let into him. His veins drying quickly into my mouth. I quench my thirst for as long as I can. And when he is drained I leave him alive.

So the vampire assumes that what this man wanted was to be bitten and left for dead. Which in itself is kind of a big assumption, considering that they were just having sex and it seems he wasn't quite satisfied yet. But she bit into his veins, and to me that just seems a bit nonsensical. Veins carry the nutrient-depleted blood, so wouldn't it be better to bite into the arteries? Carotid, anyone? Besides that, veins don't technically dry--it's more like emptying. If the veins were to dry, I think we could safely assume the guy was being mummified alive. Yeah. Imagine it. Ouch. Anyway. My last question for this bit is . . . if he is totally drained of blood, how can he still be alive? At best he'd be in a sort of unconscious stupor . . . or maybe he died with his eyes open and she couldn't tell the difference.

Not by much but enough to see my nude body leave the room, and him left unsatisfied . . .

I think we can sum up all the problems with this story in one sentence: "Skittles needs to get laid."

This main character, lest we forget, basically teases a guy into wanting to have sex with her, lets him finger her, rides him, tortures the crap out of his chest to a level of pain I think most Marines would be unable to withstand, collapses onto his organ during sex, bites his neck, and leaves him barely alive?

Which only emphasizes the vast understatement inherent in the term "unsatisfied" as it is used here. And, does anyone else wonder why she's walking around naked?

I did, but then I decided I really didn't need to know. Especially since that means that she's letting her made-of-Flubber spine all hang out.

Still, if you thought the story was bad, you should read what people were saying about it. In fact, why don't you join us in a few days? I think Zo and I would like to take some of these . . . people . . . to task.

Intro

2009-03-28T08:36:00.000-07:00

Ever felt your brain cells sloughing off at a particularly bad piece of writing?

It's a particular feeling, innit? Very few things in the world inspire a true "what-the-fuck" reaction in us human beings: between the common tendency to restrict our emotions and the value our mercenary world places on stoicism and tough emotional skin, it's not odd at all that we don't often experience that massive explosion of raw disgust.

If, while perusing some work of perceived literary merit, you've wanted to slit your wrists - or better yet, the author's - then this is the place for you!

I'm Menzies. (MING-iss; it's Scottish.) I read and write far too little for my own good, so here's hoping the flowing vitriol will help keep me in practice. I take pleasure in little yellow cars and easily-recognizable Greek aorists.

This is where I turn to the other contributors so they can get their pence in. Amici?

I'm Zo. I like fuzzy animals and human skeletal anatomy. I should probably be doing homework at any given time I'm here, but as long as we don't tell anyone it should be okay.

Posts can come from any of the above, whether by themselves or in any combination; they'll usually be titled with the name of the piece. Since it depends so much on us finding things that make us want to be lobotomized, expect them to be completely irregular. In cases of multiple contributors, the colors will tell you who's writing what, though we hope our distinct styles will do part of the work.

Stay a spell, enjoy the slow death of your respect for your fellow human beings, and don't feed the egos. Remember - wanting to hurl just means you're alive!